LeftieBiker
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:25 am

If you mean "science fiction" then yes. Since the necessary materials do actually exist, though, I'd call it "achievable science fiction."
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danrjones
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:04 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:27 pm
For those wondering what a "space elevator" is, it's a truly Nifty as yet un-built device: you park a space station or even just a big rock in synchronous orbit above one spot on a planet or moon, then stretch a tether between the two points. Then, instead of having to launch things into orbit, you can just 'winch' them up and down the tether in an elevator - or a hundred elevators. As noted you need a stronger material for the tether than we currently have in production.
But worse, you'd need some truly good elevator music for that long ride.


I've seen a lot of arguing pro and con about going to mars.
One thing I think for me that makes moon and mars so important is that often when humans are pushed to our limits, that is when we are most inventive and creative. Necessity is the mother of all invention. Who knows what kind of technology we will invent - technology that could also help the earth - if we push ourselves.

But we need a better zero G toilet for the masses! I can't wait to see what the restroom in the crewed version of Starship looks like.
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WetEV
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Mars Is a Hellhole

Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:55 pm

WetEV wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:36 am
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... th/618133/
Mars Is a Hellhole

Colonizing the red planet is a ridiculous way to help humanity.
WetEV
#49
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danrjones
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Re: Mars Is a Hellhole

Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:12 pm

WetEV wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:55 pm
WetEV wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:36 am
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... th/618133/
Mars Is a Hellhole

Colonizing the red planet is a ridiculous way to help humanity.
Yes, that is one of the articles I was referring too.

My comments above stand.

Edit: I would add though that learning to live on mars is, to me, has never been an excuse to not take care of Earth.
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WetEV
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Re: Mars is a Hellhole

Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:00 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:27 pm
For those wondering what a "space elevator" is, it's a truly Nifty as yet un-built device: you park a space station or even just a big rock in synchronous orbit above one spot on a planet or moon, then stretch a tether between the two points. Then, instead of having to launch things into orbit, you can just 'winch' them up and down the tether in an elevator - or a hundred elevators. As noted you need a stronger material for the tether than we currently have in production.
A detail: need to park the space station above geosynchronous orbit so there is tension on the tether. At geosynchronous distance, the tether would be slack at the top, but would have drag forces, and the space station would de-orbit fairly quickly. Just 5% beyond that should be good enough. Might want more than that, so the station at the top has "gravity".
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
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goldbrick
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Re: Mars Is a Hellhole

Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:12 pm

I don't see how that would actually work. The motion of bodies in free space is determined by force, which converts quite readily to acceleration (F=MA). So any force lifting a mass up the elevator would tend to accelerate the lifter in orbit down (opposite and equal and all that). That downward force could be cancelled by thrust or inertia. Thrust is pretty obvious but at that point why not just put a rocket on the load? If using inertia aka 'centrifugal force', what happens when the load lift is done? Without additional thrust to correct the trajectory the orbiter would simply fly off into space. Am I missing something?

GRA
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Re: Mars Is a Hellhole

Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:22 pm

Last edited by GRA on Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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danrjones
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Re: Mars Is a Hellhole

Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:25 pm

goldbrick wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:12 pm
I don't see how that would actually work. The motion of bodies in free space is determined by force, which converts quite readily to acceleration (F=MA). So any force lifting a mass up the elevator would tend to accelerate the lifter in orbit down (opposite and equal and all that). That downward force could be cancelled by thrust or inertia. Thrust is pretty obvious but at that point why not just put a rocket on the load? If using inertia aka 'centrifugal force', what happens when the load lift is done? Without additional thrust to correct the trajectory the orbiter would simply fly off into space. Am I missing something?
Besides the wiki link he gave you, I would assume the counter weight would be sufficient to exceed any opposite forces you might ever put on the system as a climber. You could oversize your counter weight and Earth wouldn't really care, so the system is not in balance, the counter weight constantly pulls. Technically you are changing the system center of mass, but earth is big.

I'd bet we are on mars long long before we have a space elevator though.
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GRA
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Re: Mars Is a Hellhole

Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:42 pm

danrjones wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:25 pm

<Snip>

I'd bet we are on mars long long before we have a space elevator though.

OTOH, given human history I wouldn't be at all surprised if we have an illudium q-36 explosive space modulator by then ("Delays, always delays!") :o
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

goldbrick
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Re: Mars Is a Hellhole

Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:16 pm

I think it says a lot about this concept that the original idea started as a very, very tall tower, inspired by the Eiffel tower. I don't completely understand how this would enable a 90+% decrease in the cost of putting things in space but since t's currently impossible with today's technology maybe no one does.

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