iPlug
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Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: ABG: U.S. carbon emissions spike in 2018 after years of falling

Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:46 pm

October 2018 data, the latest available, show that the average U.S. price – 12.87 cents per kilowatt hour (kWh)

Ranked #10 is California at 15.73 cents/kWh.

https://www.chooseenergy.com/electricit ... -by-state/

That's only 22% above the national average. Yet California’s non-CO2 emitting electric generation categories represented >56% of total in-state generation (>53% total system power mix) for the most recently reported year, 2017. So California can increase non-CO2 sources a great deal more before the direct price to customer doubles.

https://www.energy.ca.gov/almanac/elect ... power.html
'19 Model 3 SR+, '19 Leaf SV, '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr prod.), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source HP, 3.70 UEF HPWH, Induction Cooktop, Variable Speed Pool Pump, Battery powered yard tools

SageBrush
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: ABG: U.S. carbon emissions spike in 2018 after years of falling

Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:20 pm

iPlug wrote:October 2018 data, the latest available, show that the average U.S. price – 12.87 cents per kilowatt hour (kWh)

Ranked #10 is California at 15.73 cents/kWh.

https://www.chooseenergy.com/electricit ... -by-state/

That's only 22% above the national average. Yet California’s non-CO2 emitting electric generation categories represented >56% of total in-state generation (>53% total system power mix) for the most recently reported year, 2017. So California can increase non-CO2 sources a great deal more before the direct price to customer doubles.

https://www.energy.ca.gov/almanac/elect ... power.html
Would be great if true but I'd like to be convinced that the amounts account for fixed charges and tiers. E.g., IIRC San Diego has kWh rates that reach above 40 cents at a relatively modest tier.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: ABG: U.S. carbon emissions spike in 2018 after years of falling

Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:33 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:Rolling out wide scale wind and solar power will probably end up like Germany.
You should know more about electricity in that country before you jump to conclusions.
They use taxes to socially engineer conservation and for subsidy of industrial power.
https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factshe ... -pay-power

Look at wholesale markets:
https://www.energy-charts.de/price.htm? ... 18&month=6
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

iPlug
Posts: 460
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: ABG: U.S. carbon emissions spike in 2018 after years of falling

Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:06 pm

SageBrush wrote:
iPlug wrote:October 2018 data, the latest available, show that the average U.S. price – 12.87 cents per kilowatt hour (kWh)

Ranked #10 is California at 15.73 cents/kWh.

https://www.chooseenergy.com/electricit ... -by-state/

That's only 22% above the national average. Yet California’s non-CO2 emitting electric generation categories represented >56% of total in-state generation (>53% total system power mix) for the most recently reported year, 2017. So California can increase non-CO2 sources a great deal more before the direct price to customer doubles.

https://www.energy.ca.gov/almanac/elect ... power.html
Would be great if true but I'd like to be convinced that the amounts account for fixed charges and tiers. E.g., IIRC San Diego has kWh rates that reach above 40 cents at a relatively modest tier.
It sounds too good to be true when looking at a few utilities in the state. San Diego Gas and Electric (SDG&E) is the smallest investor owned utility (IOU) and has the highest rates in California. We're not too far behind in PG&E land, another IOU.

But I have relatives who live among other municipal utilities. My parents, for example, recently moved to our neighboring city of Roseville. There they pay 9.3 cents/kwh for the first 500 kWh then 14.3 cents/kWh unlimited after that. They moved from Los Angeles a few months ago and rates were even less there with their usage: 7.3 cents/kWh for first 500 kWh, 11.3 cents/kWh for the next 1000 kWh, and maximum tier in the high season at 18.1 cents/kWh after 1500 kWh.

Yes, it remains an area of uncertainty: how the earlier website quoted deals with things like fixed power access charges. If it does or does not account for these, as long as they are similar in California as they are nationally, it should wash out.
'19 Model 3 SR+, '19 Leaf SV, '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr prod.), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source HP, 3.70 UEF HPWH, Induction Cooktop, Variable Speed Pool Pump, Battery powered yard tools

Oilpan4
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Re: ABG: U.S. carbon emissions spike in 2018 after years of falling

Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:45 pm

Oh lovely. More taxes. So just making electricity more expensive wasn't good enough. Lay on a bunch of taxes too.

Cheap electricity is one of the corner stones to wide scale electric vehicle adoption.

Taxing people to force them to change doesn't aways work. People get taxed to the point where they get stuck in the same old rut, they can't break out and do anything different.
"THE ABOVE POST CONTAINS MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION. PLEASE CONSIDER IT OPINION, NOT FACT". -someone who I offended and is unable to produce the facts in question.

SageBrush
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: ABG: U.S. carbon emissions spike in 2018 after years of falling

Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:50 am

Oilpan4 wrote:Oh lovely. More taxes. So just making electricity more expensive wasn't good enough. Lay on a bunch of taxes too.

Cheap electricity is one of the corner stones to wide scale electric vehicle adoption.

Taxing people to force them to change doesn't aways work. People get taxed to the point where they get stuck in the same old rut, they can't break out and do anything different.
I'll guess that your concern that electricity taxes will retard EV adoption in Germany are unfounded. Just look at the price of fossil fuel due to the taxes on it and compare the savings between the two countries in cost/mile to switch to EV.
https://www.mylpg.eu/stations/germany/prices
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Oilpan4
Posts: 1771
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: ABG: U.S. carbon emissions spike in 2018 after years of falling

Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:03 pm

I honestly don't care about Germany at all.
In Germany gasoline is so expensive they could double electrical prices again and electric would still be a lot cheaper than gasoline. I didn't say that high electric prices slow the adoption of electric vehicles in Germany, you jumped to that conclusion on your own.
In the United States electric has to compete with relatively cheap gasoline at the moment and the expiration of the electric vehicle credits.

In the United States we have seen registrations for electric vehicles grow every year. But as of 2017 the national average has only reached 1.5 out of 1,000 being full electric.
That means soon we hit market saturation for people who really want electric vehicles at some point. Right now there are still plenty of people who want one, can afford them, have a place to charge them and don't mind the limited range and long charge times of what they can afford.
Eventually electric adoption will need to break out of the group of super fans.
Cheap electricity will aid adoption to the outsiders.
"THE ABOVE POST CONTAINS MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION. PLEASE CONSIDER IT OPINION, NOT FACT". -someone who I offended and is unable to produce the facts in question.

SageBrush
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: ABG: U.S. carbon emissions spike in 2018 after years of falling

Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:10 pm

Oilpan4 wrote: Cheap electricity will aid adoption to the outsiders.
A fair accounting of the real costs of fossil extraction, supply, delivery and combustion borne by the consumer is all that is needed.
http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Externalization_of_Costs
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

iPlug
Posts: 460
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: ABG: U.S. carbon emissions spike in 2018 after years of falling

Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:26 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:In the United States we have seen registrations for electric vehicles grow every year. But as of 2017 the national average has only reached 1.5 out of 1,000 being full electric.
That means soon we hit market saturation for people who really want electric vehicles at some point...Eventually electric adoption will need to break out of the group of super fans.
How could we say "soon"? Plug-in vehicles sales almost doubled in the last year and most of that was due to Model 3 production spin-up. The Model 3 may have canabalized other non-Tesla potential sales. But even without it, the plug-in marked still grew above single digit territory. Would be hard to support a stall in growth soon.

https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/
Oilpan4 wrote:Cheap electricity will aid adoption to the outsiders.
It's one of many variables, relevant, but not onerous and probably not among the most important. Lower battery pack costs, ICE customers paying the external costs of fossil fuels, charging infrastructure, etc. are some of the more significant others.
'19 Model 3 SR+, '19 Leaf SV, '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr prod.), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source HP, 3.70 UEF HPWH, Induction Cooktop, Variable Speed Pool Pump, Battery powered yard tools

Oilpan4
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Re: ABG: U.S. carbon emissions spike in 2018 after years of falling

Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:42 pm

I seem to remember quite a few people waiting on tesla.

Last year tesla went from having a pretty long waiting list to as of December 2018 I was reading that dealers actually had inventory meaning you could go in and get one and not have to wait for it.

Waiting list means supply is not matching demand. Having inventory means they are catching up.

Once gas goes back over $3 a gallon for all of the US the supply of fuel efficiency cars, electrics and other plug ins will suddenly be lacking. So demand for electric vehicles is a very fluid target.

Making fossil fuel users pay for pretend environmental damage isn't going to fly here. The only chance the dems had to pull it off was 10 years ago and they blew it.
"THE ABOVE POST CONTAINS MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION. PLEASE CONSIDER IT OPINION, NOT FACT". -someone who I offended and is unable to produce the facts in question.

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