Page 5 of 25

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:31 am
by Oilpan4
GRA wrote:Back on topic, does anyone have a source for NM wind generation curves? While I've had no trouble finding the names, capacities and total annual production of NM wind farms, I've been unable to find any data such as is available for.....
Most wind farms really don't like to share their detailed data. They didn't like the idea that I was taking notes on their production trends straight off the trended data.
I was a visiting student, not like they could fire me.
Sage brush posted weather reports that show wind speed throughout the day here. Those weather reports precisely detail what I said happens here.

A typical non-GE wind turbine like the ones I was around/inside of they start turning at 4 or 5 mph of wind speed then start production at about 7 or 8 mph but this is only around 40kw. Then by 30 to 36mph they are at full power, most of the turbines around here are 1 to 2Mw.
In standby mode they draw 5 to 7kw.

Plus I don't know what the big deal is over wind power. It's economical, In most areas I don't believe it increases rates by any notable amount. If I was approached by a wind power company that wanted to build wind turbines on my land I would have them.

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:40 am
by Oilpan4
SageBrush wrote:
Oilpan4 wrote: We don't need tresamigas.
The proposed DCHV line was never about NM per se, but a proposal to link the wind resources in West Texas and Eastern NM with the
California market.

It will happen because it makes a LOT of sense, saves money, and allows the clean energy economy to blossom. We just have to get rid of the monkeys in the White House.
I was unaware trump was president in 2014-2015 when tresamigas progress stalled.
I would love for NM to sell wind power to California if they are unwilling to build their own wind farms.
But most of NM and California are on the same power grid, all we needed was additional high voltage AC capacity to get it to them. Fancy overpriced transmission lines not needed.

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:42 am
by Oilpan4
SageBrush wrote:
Oilpan4 wrote: Do you know how I can pull the trend data off their closed scata system with out working there at the wind farm?
No, but the wind resource data itself is available. Since you refuse to reference data to back up your drivel I posted ERCOT and NM wind data (in the NREL link) in an earlier post to show just how wrong your statements are.

I posted the weather link to give you an idea how to collect data but other sources are available.

Go ahead -- look at the 2017 ERCOT wind generation graph posted in this thread. What is the range of average hourly capacity factor through the night ?
When during the 24 hour cycle is the nadir ?

This is the graph. Do you understand it ?

Image
Easy.
That graph doesn't count wind turbines that are in shutdown mode as "capacity".
Most of them go into shutdown mode at night.
I was looking at actual power generation.
Not bean counter capacity factor number fluffing.

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:18 am
by Oilpan4
More good news, nm customers are going to be on the hook for the shutdown of the coal fired plant in Farmington.
https://apnews.com/58c8b81fa2a347748ff77db2534c2f69.

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:58 pm
by SageBrush
Oilpan4 wrote: Most of them go into shutdown mode at night.
Wrong on both counts.

Read the ERCOT website instead of posting more BS

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:59 pm
by SageBrush
Oilpan4 wrote:More good news, nm customers are going to be on the hook for the shutdown of the coal fired plant in Farmington.
More accurately, they remain on the hook, but this way they get cheaper, clean energy.

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:10 pm
by WetEV
Oilpan4 wrote:That graph doesn't count wind turbines that are in shutdown mode as "capacity".
Most of them go into shutdown mode at night.
I was looking at actual power generation.
Not bean counter capacity factor number fluffing.
Source please.

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:44 pm
by SageBrush
WetEV wrote:
Oilpan4 wrote:That graph doesn't count wind turbines that are in shutdown mode as "capacity".
Most of them go into shutdown mode at night.
I was looking at actual power generation.
Not bean counter capacity factor number fluffing.
Source please.
Good luck :lol:

He does not understand that the ERCOT data is actual generation divided by nameplate.

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:01 pm
by GRA
SageBrush wrote:
GRA wrote: IIRR they were originally claiming they could ultimately move 20GW.
The website says 750 MW planned in 2016 but they are now talking about a 200 MW pipe-let.

I don't think there is much doubt that large scale regional sharing is key to replacing fossils with clean energy.
Unfortunately, a forward thinking government is needed.
That was in 2017. The last press release on their website was in 11/2016, so I suspect they may well be dead, as their problem was lack of financing and not meeting targets. But the ability to move large amounts of renewable electricity to the coasts will be critical to any attempt to get off fossil fuels (for electricity), and so far, no one's willing to pay for that. Re Tres Amigas, this is from July 2015:
Tres Amigas, a $1.6 billion project meant to connect the three U.S. regional grid systems with a superconducting high-voltage direct current transmission link, has just lost an interconnection agreement with one of its key grid partners.

On Monday, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission issued an “instant proceeding” (PDF) approving a request from the Southwest Power Pool to terminate the interconnection agreement between Tres Amigas and utility Southwestern Public Service Co. (SPS). According to the document, the utility decided to terminate the agreement in May, after Tres Amigas had consistently defaulted on its milestone agreements and failed to make initial payments.

Xcel Energy, which owns SPS, told FERC that the utility had “voluntarily extended the deadlines for compliance with milestones contained in the Agreement four times, thereby delaying the Commercial Operation Date in the Agreement by nearly two years” since it was first filed in September 2013. SPS also agreed to decrease the initial payment owed by Tres Amigas from $7.5 million to $1.4 million, but still has not been paid, the FERC document stated.

That’s a tiny amount of money compared to the estimated $1.6 billion that Tres Amigas hopes to raise and spend to build its first-of-a-kind transmission link in Clovis, New Mexico. The idea is to build high-voltage direct current (HVDC) links between three U.S. grid systems -- the Eastern Interconnection, the Western Interconnection, and the Texas power grid -- to allow the large amounts of power being generated by wind and solar farms in that region to reach multiple markets. . . .;
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles ... #gs.5rtbd3

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:10 pm
by GRA
Oilpan4 wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
Oilpan4 wrote: We don't need tresamigas.
The proposed DCHV line was never about NM per se, but a proposal to link the wind resources in West Texas and Eastern NM with the
California market.

It will happen because it makes a LOT of sense, saves money, and allows the clean energy economy to blossom. We just have to get rid of the monkeys in the White House.
I was unaware trump was president in 2014-2015 when tresamigas progress stalled.
I would love for NM to sell wind power to California if they are unwilling to build their own wind farms.
But most of NM and California are on the same power grid, all we needed was additional high voltage AC capacity to get it to them. Fancy overpriced transmission lines not needed.
California isn't unwilling to build wind farms: after all, for many years we had the largest wind farm in the world. But the good onshore wind resources are mostly concentrated in just a few passes, and those have already been exploited. Off-shore has better resources but faces its own issues, cost first but also navigation and environmental/aesthetic. I personally like the way wind turbines look, but I'm apparently in a minority.

"Fancy overpriced lines" presumably refers to HV DC, but as that is cheaper when moving large amounts of electricity over long distances, I have no idea why you'd make that statement:
Over a specific distance, called as break-even distance, HVDC line becomes cheaper than HVAC. The break-even distance for overhead lines is around 600 km and for submarine lines it is around 50 km.
https://www.electricaleasy.com/2016/02/ ... -hvac.html

As the straight line distance from Clovis, NM to L.A. is almost 1,400 km and to NYC is over 2,600 km with the path of any transmission line being longer, there's no question whether AC or DC is cheaper.