GRA
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Re: Berkeley, CA becoming first city in U.S. to ban natural gas in new buildings

Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:51 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:06 am
Yup they want to limit choice, monopolize and then gouge.
Basic capitalism.
I'm surprised just about everyone seems complicit even looking forward to be perfectly set up to get completely screwed.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. PG&E (one of the three major IOUs in California) had a monopoly, and fought against allowing CCAs. Thankfully, they lost. We've already experienced what full utility deregulation can lead to here in California - does "Enron" ring any bells?
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Oilpan4
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Re: Berkeley, CA becoming first city in U.S. to ban natural gas in new buildings

Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:52 am

Enron a perfect example of limited or removal of choice, monopolize and gouge.

When you state is ran by professional criminals what did you expect to happen?

NM has lightly regulated electricity and our prices are consistent one of the 5 cheapest in the nation.
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SageBrush
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Re: Berkeley, CA becoming first city in U.S. to ban natural gas in new buildings

Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:27 am

Oilpan4 wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:52 am
Enron a perfect example of limited or removal of choice, monopolize and gouge.
NM has lightly regulated electricity and our prices are consistent one of the 5 cheapest in the nation.
As usual you have no idea what you are blabbing about.

Enron was able to exist once CA deregulated. The price jumps occurred due to manipulation of the markets, in concert with key transmission and generation operators.

As for NM, utilities do not do *anything* without the approval and consent of the state regulatory authority. Who do you think authorizes and mandates the transition to clean energy in the state ?
Last edited by SageBrush on Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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GRA
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Re: Berkeley, CA becoming first city in U.S. to ban natural gas in new buildings

Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:41 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:27 am
Oilpan4 wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:52 am
Enron a perfect example of limited or removal of choice, monopolize and gouge.
NM has lightly regulated electricity and our prices are consistent one of the 5 cheapest in the nation.
As usual you have no idea what you are blabbing about.

Enron was able to exist once CA deregulated. The price jumps occurred due to manipulation of the markets, in concert with key transmission and generation operators.

Yup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Star_(business) and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Californi ... ity_crisis
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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Re: Berkeley, CA becoming first city in U.S. to ban natural gas in new buildings

Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:30 am

SageBrush wrote:
Enron was able to exist once CA deregulated. The price jumps occurred due to manipulation of the markets, in concert with key transmission and generation operators.

As for NM, utilities do not do *anything* without the approval and consent of the state regulatory authority. Who do you think authorizes the transition to clean energy in the state ?
That's exactly what I said.
Guess you don't have a clue either.
I'm well aware of obtaining state approval. To build a generating setup greater than 10kw it goes to to state level.
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SageBrush
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Re: Berkeley, CA becoming first city in U.S. to ban natural gas in new buildings

Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:45 am

Oilpan4 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:30 am
SageBrush wrote:
Enron was able to exist once CA deregulated. The price jumps occurred due to manipulation of the markets, in concert with key transmission and generation operators.
That's exactly what I said.
.
No, it is not. You said Enron monopolizes.
Enron a perfect example of limited or removal of choice, monopolize and gouge.
That is not what happened. Enron defrauded and manipulated a deregulated system.

Read the Wikipedia articles GRA posted for you.
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Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
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11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
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iPlug
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Re: Berkeley, CA becoming first city in U.S. to ban natural gas in new buildings

Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:22 pm

Looks like Menlo Park may join Berkeley:

One month after Berkeley became the first city in America to ban natural gas in new buildings, a second Bay Area city is poised to take a similarly ambitious plunge to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by requiring cleaner, electric alternatives.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercur ... dings/amp/

And other nearby cities looking to do the same:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfchro ... 342117.php

Noted in the article:

A study released by the California Codes and Standards program found that, on average, it costs around $6,000 less to build an all-electric single-family home than it does to build a mixed fuel home with natural gas. The savings come from not having to hook up natural gas infrastructure or pipe it to the home, said Rachel Kuykendall, senior program manager at Sonoma Clean Power, which has worked with other local groups to offer $5,000 to homeowners affected by the 2017 wildfires to rebuild their homes so they run only on electricity.
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danrjones
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Re: Berkeley, CA becoming first city in U.S. to ban natural gas in new buildings

Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:52 pm

I live in CA and I understand the intent, but would have mixed feelings.

My house has both. My water heater, my drier and my range are gas. I have solar too. If I had MORE solar I might be willing to go to a electric water heater, but I've found a gas drier or water heater are much faster. I've had both. And cooking on gas is far superior than electric. Would I give them up to save the world? Probably. But don't deny the fact that gas has advantages. Almost everyone I know who has had a electric and gas range in their life prefers gas. Its just a better way to cook. Good luck fire roasting peppers on an electric stove!

That said, it seems like 90% of the younger generations only know how to use a microwave, so maybe when I am dead its a moot point. :D
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Berkeley, CA becoming first city in U.S. to ban natural gas in new buildings

Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:04 pm

Would I give them up to save the world? Probably. But don't deny the fact that gas has advantages. Almost everyone I know who has had a electric and gas range in their life prefers gas. Its just a better way to cook. Good luck fire roasting peppers on an electric stove!

Kudos for almost deciding to help save the world. I'm sure it was close.
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iPlug
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Re: Berkeley, CA becoming first city in U.S. to ban natural gas in new buildings

Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:04 pm

danrjones wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:52 pm
I've found a gas drier or water heater are much faster. I've had both.
Interesting, my experiences have been very different.

Gas driers and electrics I have used both dried the same speed (both within 10% drying time and both a bit too fast that clothes were scalding hot and prematurely aged). Heat pump driers are half as fast but gentler. Is that what you are referring to? Would like to get one of these one day when they make large format US standard sizes that are reliable.

Our heat pump hybrid water heater replaced a gas one. Because it does both electric resistance and heat pump, it can heat water nearly as fast as our old gas water heater when needed and this has never been an issue. We leave it on heat pump only mode 99%+ of the time and only go hybrid when numerous guests are staying multi-day.

danrjones wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:52 pm
And cooking on gas is far superior than electric.
Induction is superior to gas in almost every way. I’ve used electric (resistance), gas, and induction (also electric). Others who have done the same almost always prefer induction. We roast vegetables in our small electric resistance Breville or same tech oven.
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