GRA
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Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:47 pm

Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:32 am

GRA wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:47 pm
Transcript here: https://www.npr.org/2019/09/23/76345286 ... ion-summit
I always have mixed feelings about this kind of political theater. I believe that the world, for humans, has never been better and the technological advances of the last couple of centuries, many of which have been powered by fossil fuels, are directly responsible for that. There are hundreds of ways to show this but I always look at the life expectancy graph over the last few hundred years and am astonished.

Image

That said, given the costs of renewables, governments around the world should be pushing to implement them and any developing country could likely skip the fossil fuel stage of economic development at this point. And I do think that developed nations, who have been the biggest emitters (by far) over the last century have a responsibility to help developing nations create economies that are cleaner and more sustainable.

At the end of the day, I am very concerned about some of the potential outcomes of climate change but I don't in any way think that my kid's dreams and childhood have been stolen or that children should live their life in fear of the future. I think that current children have the brightest future of any children that have ever lived so I really don't know how to feel about the world is going to end approach but I guess urgency is needed for action and measured speeches haven't produced much urgency.
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:31 am

At the end of the day, I am very concerned about some of the potential outcomes of climate change but I don't in any way think that my kid's dreams and childhood have been stolen or that children should live their life in fear of the future. I think that current children have the brightest future of any children that have ever lived so I really don't know how to feel about the world is going to end approach but I guess urgency is needed for action and measured speeches haven't produced much urgency.

This is the crux of the problem. The world has never seen an ecological collapse since the dawn of civilization, so we can't remember it or even imagine it clearly, so we don't believe it will happen. I do wonder if your metric will change as the non-human species populations crash in the coming decade. It's happening right now, with insects, birds, and amphibians.
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:54 am

golfcart wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:32 am

I always have mixed feelings about this kind of political theater. I believe that the world, for humans, has never been better and the technological advances of the last couple of centuries, many of which have been powered by fossil fuels, are directly responsible for that. ...
Absolutely true. But as they say about investing "past performance is not a guarantee of future results". To continue the analogy, we've run up a huge environmental deficit and have bought our present by mortgaging our future.

We need to take your observation and realize that the prosperity depended upon availability of economical energy. For self-interest alone we need to ensure this continues. It cannot indefinitely with fossil fuels. And if we assess the true cost of fossil fuels by including the cost of their impact, they become impossibly expensive. We need to make an orderly transition while we still have the prosperity and means to do so.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:25 am

All of those concerns stated above are valid in my opinion... but I think that the market is already transitioning us due to the widespread reduction in the cost of renewables and storage.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019 ... the-world/

Like I said, I just hate the political theater. I hear a lot of virtue signaling about these things from my upper middle class peers but I see very little action in terms of giving things up, adopting "green" technologies, or reducing their consumption... they still drive 20000 miles a year and still fly to conferences 2 or 3 times a year to promote their "super important" research. The media promoting this kid sailing across the Atlantic in a "zero emissions" yacht, but hardly mentioning that people are flying over from Europe to sail it back, is another perfect example.
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:06 am

My favorite virtue signalers are the ones that drive gasoline burners and think everyone else should be buying electric vehicles or have major natural gas using appliances and rail against fracking.
I often wonder if virtue signalers can believe their own bullshit. Guess it's the only way they can stand them selves.
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:12 am

Watching this young lady on TV, as she addressed the UNITED NATIONS..... Made me want to HEAVE !!

I am incensed that this young girl is being used as a figure head to promote a political agenda. A 16 year old girl does not just get invited to the U.N. because she is a caring citizen of the planet.. Otherwise she would be pitching girl scout cookies at her local supermarket entrance.... She is groomed and promoted like a product by a powerful force.

She is a finely crafted product that has been specially chosen to look androgynous. She speaks with speech-writers skill, in a highly practiced manner, with even fake emotional cries in her voice. As I have researched, she is backed by BMW, and has ties to big money, and has even been brought to the U.S. (In a sailboat) by a multi-million dollar professional racing sailboat outfit to show how environmentally responsible she is. YES, she will not use a polluting plane!! They don't tell you that Europe is flying a new crew of sailors here to bring the boat back to Europe.

This girl is the perfect Ventriloquist Puppet - to say all of the outlandish things that the adult "climate" power hungry forces would like to say but cannot. After all, anyone who criticizes a "child" must be evil and heartless.

Regardless of your or my beliefs on the actual facts of this climate cause, there is one issue... This girl has been used like a human "Mickey Mouse" product for a giant Communist movement to change the world's economy with FEAR. There can be no other explanation for this worldwide fame of a teenager that is just repeating statistics and fake anger at the world---- That someone has taught her.

PS - edit - Since I first wrote this, I read that this young woman is a person with Asperger's Syndrome. Now I really feel more angry that a person with a social disability is being manipulated to make social commentary at this level. I consider this child abuse..
Last edited by powersurge on Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:31 am

powersurge wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:12 am
Watching this young lady on TV, as she addressed the UNITED NATIONS..... Made me want to HEAVE !!

I am incensed that this young girl is being used as a figure head to promote a political agenda. A 16 year old girl does not just get invited to the U.N. because she is a caring citizen of the planet.. Otherwise she would be pitching girl scout cookies at her local supermarket entrance.... She is groomed and promoted like a product by a powerful force.

She is a finely crafted product that has been specially chosen to look androgynous. She speaks with speech-writers skill, in a highly practiced manner, with even fake emotional cries in her voice. As I have researched, she is backed by BMW, and has ties to big money, and has even been brought to the U.S. (In a sailboat) by a multi-million dollar professional racing sailboat outfit to show how environmentally responsible she is. YES, she will not use a polluting plane!! They don't tell you that Europe is flying a new crew of sailors here to bring the boat back to Europe.

This girl is the perfect Ventriloquist Puppet - to say all of the outlandish things that the adult "climate" power hungry forces would like to say but cannot. After all, anyone who criticizes a "child" must be evil and heartless.

Regardless of your or my beliefs on the actual facts of this climate cause, there is one issue... This girl has been used like a human "Mickey Mouse" product for a giant Communist movement to change the world's economy with FEAR. There can be no other explanation for this worldwide fame of a teenager that is just repeating statistics and fake anger at the world---- That someone has taught her.
No idea on her background but I agree. She is a puppet and evidencing in my amateur opinion alarming behavior in somebody of any age let alone 16. If her childhood has been ruined as she claims it is certainly not the fault of SUV drivers. Something far more personal is the cause. I'd look first a home life and second at home life.

The left is very big on emotion and seems to have a penchant for using children as their message carriers. It may be that her vulnerability makes her an easy target to carry this message. Something is just simply off about her.

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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:47 pm

I have yet to see someone with Asperger's act as someone else's puppet. I do, however, see "normal" people act as puppets for the fossil energy industry and the NRA every single day.
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:48 pm

This is interesting for me, as someone who considers himself middle ground and is registered to neither party. I have noted before that part of what caused the current president to get elected - besides apathy for a poor candidate on the left - was push back by the right and some in the middle. Both the right and the left just seem to love creating mandates for the average American without thinking through how it will impact them. One example in CA is talk of water allocation. Each house gets, lets say 40 gal per day per person, just as a example. That might sound like a great idea to city apartment dwellers. And so someone thinks that everyone should do it, unaware of what life is like in suburbs or rural areas. In my area, most ACs are swamp coolers. Limiting our water would essentially cut off our air conditioning here, which in a hot climate is outright dangerous. There just seems to often be a total lack of empathy and understanding to how others live. That isn't to say things can't be done, but you must be flexible and realize people can't afford unfunded mandates.

All that said, change almost always starts with the young. I didn't watch most of her speech but I have to agree that calling her a puppet without proof is a stretch. Since our political system relies on money, just about every politician is in fact a puppet for wherever the money came from. You can attempt to take issue with her science, but I suspect her passion is less likely bought than a politicians.
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