LeftieBiker
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:08 pm

Both the right and the left just seem to love creating mandates for the average American without thinking through how it will impact them.
The Left (not that we actually have a Left government) tends to think less about short term affects than long term effects, but in the case of AGW that is exactly what needs to be done. Short term thinking is what got us to the edge of this abyss.

Using swamp coolers where the sun shines a lot is really a waste of water. PV panels tied to electric A/C units should be subsidized instead.
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danrjones
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:31 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:08 pm
Both the right and the left just seem to love creating mandates for the average American without thinking through how it will impact them.
The Left (not that we actually have a Left government) tends to think less about short term affects than long term effects, but in the case of AGW that is exactly what needs to be done. Short term thinking is what got us to the edge of this abyss.

Using swamp coolers where the sun shines a lot is really a waste of water. PV panels tied to electric A/C units should be subsidized instead.
If Los angles hadn't stripped the Eastern sierra of every drop of water, there would be no water problem here. Swamp coolers work very well in sunny dry areas. They are actually quite a good solution, use a lot less energy, and add moisture to the air. They really don't even use THAT much water, but the point is that water allocation can't be blind.

Everyone's water in CA is a different situation. In fact, there is plenty of water in CA. Only about 20% is used statewide for households. The rest is Ag. Even in the worst drought we have enough for homes, even with lawns. But they continue to squeeze that 20% without really addressing the 80%. The southern end of the central valley and now the deserts have sprung up tree crops everywhere. Tree crops might use less water on average per acre than other crops, BUT in drought they can't be fallowed. Big problem. And then we export the nuts overseas, to boot. We are essentially selling our water supply overseas.

The point though is not to assume one size fits all. If Solar and AC is a better way to go, that's fine, but the problem tends to be unfunded mandates where the average Joe is told what to do without any means to do it. Most folks simply can't find the money to slap a solar system on their house, add an AC system, and change/ add new ducting. That's ten to twenty thousand dollars. If the state and or feds want to mandate it, they must provide funding for it out of the general tax base. It doesn't matter how bad for the environment something is if the average american can't afford to change it. Instead, the average joe will push back and you get Trump. Just saying.
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:54 pm

powersurge wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:12 am
Regardless of your or my beliefs on the actual facts of this climate cause, there is one issue... This girl has been used like a human "Mickey Mouse" product for a giant Communist movement to change the world's economy with FEAR. There can be no other explanation...
Seriously? You can't grant the possibility that it's genuine? Sure, some powerful people helped her out. Plenty of people believe in the cause.

It seems she's been active for years. Please consider the possibility that she's just a product of the challenging times we live in.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:58 pm

I was already aware of the Ca water situation. I don't believe in unfunded mandates that hurt average people either, and no like-minded socialist would. The thing I'm not seeing in this thread is how very much runaway AGW will hurt the non-rich and, especially, their children. It is just barely possible that the current adult 35+ YO population will mainly avoid the worst of what is to come (although I doubt it). It is certain that their children will not.

One slip ahead of me. Powersurge may as well be a sock puppet for Al Gore because of the cartoonish things he writes. I wouldn't waste a lot of effort responding seriously.
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danrjones
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:08 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:58 pm
I was already aware of the Ca water situation. I don't believe in unfunded mandates that hurt average people either, and no like-minded socialist would. The thing I'm not seeing in this thread is how very much runaway AGW will hurt the non-rich and, especially, their children. It is just barely possible that the current adult 35+ YO population will mainly avoid the worst of what is to come (although I doubt it). It is certain that their children will not.

One slip ahead of me. Powersurge may as well be a sock puppet for Al Gore because of the cartoonish things he writes. I wouldn't waste a lot of effort responding seriously.
To me the scariest part is just how much we do not know. Humans are very good at adapting, so its possible the impact will be less than the left wants you to believe. I have faith in our ability to adapt under pressure. But the rest of the ecosystem, not so much. you wipe out bees, whole species of plants will dissapear. You wipe out whole species of plants, various animal species will dissapear. There will be unforeseeable chain reactions. Systems are complex, you can throw a small wrench into it and it might react minimally, or it might teeter wildly off a cliff. I still think humans will survive as a species but it raises philosophical and ethical questions about whether our species has the right to sacrifice others for convenience.
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:20 pm

I though the ipcc said to lay off the agw dooms day rhetoric.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:23 pm

Of course some humans will survive - I don't think many people doubt that. But if 80-90% of the human race dies, and 75-90% of the animal species, how is that in any way less than a catastrophe?

It is not "The Left" BTW, that predicts a catastrophe if radical action isn't taken immediately. It is the near-total worldwide scientific consensus. Referring to "The Left" in this context is buying into the propaganda machine of the Corporate Right, consciously or not.
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:46 pm

Apologies I use the left and the right for the two political parties, as I find neither fits me. I suppose that's grammatically lazy on my part.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:37 pm

danrjones wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:46 pm
Apologies I use the left and the right for the two political parties, as I find neither fits me. I suppose that's grammatically lazy on my part.

Understood, but we still have quite a few Democrats who are "DINOS." (Democrats In Name Only.) Our Democratic party is also far to the Right of the Euro Democrats; they are more like Tories.
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:51 pm

powersurge wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:12 am
PS - edit - Since I first wrote this, I read that this young woman is a person with Asperger's Syndrome. Now I really feel more angry that a person with a social disability is being manipulated to make social commentary at this level. I consider this child abuse..
Asperger's is a very narrow disability. It is a mild autistic spectrum disorder which is a characteristic of many great people of history Einstein, Newton, etc. She is quoted as says she finds it an asset in her role, and that is certainly believable. I am not an expert on this subject other than being on the spectrum myself.

I found her UN speech painful to watch. I was at her Climate Strike rally in NYC and she was composed and to the point during her speech there. Unfortunately, as we can read here, the UN speech may generate more sympathy for her than for the cause.

I still hope the past week is the start of an awakening of the masses to the urgency of the problem. I hope there will be a progressive increase in the participation in the Climate Strikes until the most jaded can no longer deny the issue. As Greta said at the rally "The house is on fire".
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