LeftieBiker
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:59 pm

DanCar wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:28 am
LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:31 am
... I do wonder if your metric will change as the non-human species populations crash in the coming decade. It's happening right now, with insects, birds, and amphibians.
What is causing this? Is it global warming or loss of habitat, pesticides, ...? It is caused by humans and no amount of reducing CO2 is going to change that.

A lot of the die off is caused by warming habitats, not by pesticides or other human actions other than CO2 increase. A significant portion of the land habitat loss is caused by warming, instead of clearing by humans. (Ocean reefs, vast vital habitats, are also being killed by warming, along with direct damage by increasing CO2 concentrations in the seas.) Habitats that used to exist in most of the mountainous areas have shrunk upwards - they shrink until they occupy only a little land near or at the tops of some mountains, then they vanish, destroyed by warming. I suggest that you do some reading, or even watch some videos by reputable science-based environmental groups, rather than just write what sounds like a good argument to you.
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DanCar
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:14 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:59 pm
DanCar wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:28 am
LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:31 am
... I do wonder if your metric will change as the non-human species populations crash in the coming decade. It's happening right now, with insects, birds, and amphibians.
What is causing this? Is it global warming or loss of habitat, pesticides, ...? It is caused by humans and no amount of reducing CO2 is going to change that.

A lot of the die off is caused by warming habitats, not by pesticides or other human actions other than CO2 increase. A significant portion of the land habitat loss is caused by warming, instead of clearing by humans. (Ocean reefs, vast vital habitats, are also being killed by warming, along with direct damage by increasing CO2 concentrations in the seas.) Habitats that used to exist in most of the mountainous areas have shrunk upwards - they shrink until they occupy only a little land near or at the tops of some mountains, then they vanish, destroyed by warming. I suggest that you do some reading, or even watch some videos by reputable science-based environmental groups, rather than just write what sounds like a good argument to you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitat_destruction
Quote: Clearing habitats for agriculture is the principal cause of habitat destruction.
I suggest that you do some reading, or even watch some videos by reputable science-based environmental groups, rather than just write what sounds like a good argument to you.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:30 pm

From the link that you provided:
Habitat destruction is currently ranked as the primary cause of species extinction worldwide.[2] It is a process of natural environmental change that may be caused by habitat fragmentation, geological processes, climate change[1] or by human activities such as the introduction of invasive species, ecosystem nutrient depletion, and other human activities.
Emphasis added by me. I am trying to explain that the current, sudden species die-offs are being caused largely (not entirely, largely) by warming. Land clearing has been going on for centuries and the losses due to that can at least be predicted fairly well. Warming habitats are a relatively new phenomenon that isn't explained by the clearing of land. Amphibians aren't vanishing with extreme rapidity because people decided to drain all of the marshes a few years ago. Do you really believe that insect populations are crashing because our decades-long use of pesticides has suddenly started to kill vastly more of them, even in places where pesticides aren't used? But hey, think whatever you want - people always do. I just got attacked recently in another forum because I suggested that part of sustainability was reducing the number of children we produce. This tendency to blame only things over which we personally have no control, while dismissing our own contributions, is why this extremely belated effort to do something positive about AGW is going to fail, and fail miserably.

I've been thinking about this, lately, in the context of the apparent dearth of detectable civilizations in the galaxy. I wonder if almost all species that are able to advance technologically are doomed to extinction by the same instincts that allowed them to dominate their planets. I'm picturing tens of thousands of dead or barely living planets, littered with plastic and abandoned personal vehicles...
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DanCar
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:38 pm

How many references do you want?
https://www.nwf.org/Educational-Resourc ... bitat-Loss
Main Causes of Habitat Loss
Agriculture: Much of the habitat loss from agriculture was done long ago when settlers converted forests and prairies to cropland. Today, there is increasing pressure to redevelop conservation lands for high-priced food and biofuel crops.

Land conversion for development: The conversion of lands that once provided wildlife habitat to housing developments, roads, office parks, strip malls, parking lots and industrial sites continues, even during the current economic crisis.

Water development: Dams and other water diversions siphon off and disconnect waters, changing hydrology and water chemistry (when nutrients are not able to flow downstream). During the dry season, the Colorado River has little to no water in it by the time it reaches the Sea of Cortez.

Pollution: Freshwater wildlife are most impacted by pollution. Pollutants such as untreated sewage, mining waste, acid rain, fertilizers and pesticides concentrate in rivers, lakes and wetlands and eventually end up in estuaries and the food web.
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DanCar
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:40 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QDk1c7fim8
Primary causes for species extinction world wide:
1. The food you eat
2. The land you live on
3. The roads you travel
The primary causes for species extinction worldwide.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:53 pm

Think whatever you like, use whatever grade school level references about past misdeeds by other people seem to you to agree with you, even when they don't. I'm done for tonight.
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SageBrush
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Re: Greta Thunberg speech at U.N.

Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:11 pm

To all the posters here who choose to attack and smear Greta Thunberg, I give you her response
I honestly don’t understand why adults would choose to spend their time mocking and threatening teenagers and children for promoting science, when they could do something good instead. I guess they must simply feel so threatened by us
Smart girl. She is already a force to be reckoned with. I look forward to seeing Greta the adult become a world leader.

This article
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environm ... right-wing
is inspiring and insightful.
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