GRA
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Re: GCC: Actual fuel economy of cars and light trucks: 1966-2017

Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:34 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:14 pm
Don't discount the role of advertising in persuading people that they 'want' or 'need' bigger, heavier vehicles. The September 11 attacks caused a society-wide fear in the US that was then used to sell large SUVs. Driving large SUVs then became a norm, with the alternative becoming smaller SUVs and CUVs. People are dumb and impulsive, but auto manufacturers are, at best, amoral.

I wasn't suggesting that advertising has no effect, only pointing out that its effect, while sometimes large, is not overwhelming. When people are paying $600/month for fuel to commute, as was often the case concurrent with the mortgage meltdown in California, no amount of advertising could move the gas hogs off the lots.

We used to have an active topic on when gas would hit $5/gal. That topic died out a few years back, as fuel prices dropped radically and then stayed down. In California, we've been paying $4+ dollars a gallon for gas for the past month or so, but unless it stays there for at least six months we won't see a big shift in car buying patterns. Indeed, my corner station, which had been at $4,20/gal. for regular for several weeks, dropped to $4.00 around Monday.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: GCC: Actual fuel economy of cars and light trucks: 1966-2017

Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:18 pm

GRA wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:47 pm
Yes, vehicles get bigger or more powerful every generation, because people want just a bit more room or a bit more power than what they had, not because it's all some big government conspiracy. If people didn't want to buy bigger, less fuel-efficient vehicles, they'd all be driving around in Prius' and tiny city cars. . . .

So, while the current generation of almost all models is more fuel efficient than the preceding generation(s), customer tastes have shifted to less efficient vehicle types, i.e. far more CUVs than sedans, which is why fleet fuel efficiency has stagnated.

See
SUVs are 2nd-largest contributor to CO2 increase this decade
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... his-decade
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

rmay635703
Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: GCC: Actual fuel economy of cars and light trucks: 1966-2017

Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:54 am

GRA wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:18 pm
GRA wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:47 pm
Yes, vehicles get bigger or more powerful every generation, because people want just a bit more room or a bit more power than what they had, not because it's all some big government conspiracy. If people didn't want to buy bigger, less fuel-efficient vehicles, they'd all be driving around in Prius' and tiny city cars. . . .

So, while the current generation of almost all models is more fuel efficient than the preceding generation(s), customer tastes have shifted to less efficient vehicle types, i.e. far more CUVs than sedans, which is why fleet fuel efficiency has stagnated.

See
SUVs are 2nd-largest contributor to CO2 increase this decade
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... his-decade

This again is why car registrations, especially in congested cities
should be roughly affected by what is akin to a luxury tax on specific larger less efficient rigs while leaving an out be it smaller, lighter, more efficient , older, manual XMSN/ base, aka whatever the most effective metrics are so you don’t create a total regressive boondoggle.

Consumer and business behavior is affected by fuel costs alongside outright taxes like registration or personal property taxes.

Nobody likes taxes but if slowly implemented with easily defined rationale, preferably rolled into the lease or loan in the case of vehicles that would get charged
people will eventually accept it as apart of their decision process.

Currently most governments do the opposite viewing small efficient cars as a loss of revenue deserving higher taxes.
This mindset needs to get divorced from the actual needs of a particular area as in the long run you are encouraging more damage and abuse to public resources which in turn encourages higher fees, wash and repeat.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: GCC: Actual fuel economy of cars and light trucks: 1966-2017

Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:41 pm

ABG:
U.S. vehicle fleet fuel efficiency sets a record in 2018
But it fell short of goal thanks to SUVs
https://www.autoblog.com/2020/03/02/aut ... ts-record/

The U.S. vehicle fleet hit a record for fuel efficiency in 2018, averaging 25.1 miles per gallon (mpg) in real-world driving as it rose 0.2 mpg, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) said.

The fleet is also preliminarily anticipated to jump to 25.5 mpg for the 2019 model year.

The EPA and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration are working to finalize rules to roll back Obama-era requirements through the 2026 model year. Officials hope to finalize the new rules by April 1 but are still working to address remaining issues.

The report also showed Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV purchased a significant number of vehicle emissions credits, while Tesla, Honda and Toyota sold credits. Daimler AG, Volkswagen AG and BMW AG also bought credits.

Among the 13 largest automakers, only VW and Hyundai saw average fuel economy fall in 2018, as they sold more SUVs and fewer cars.

Dan Becker, director of the Safe Climate Campaign, said automakers were far short of the 1 mpg improvement they were supposed to meet in 2018. "The rules should be strengthened to cut pollution and save consumers money at the pump," Becker said.

EPA Administrator Andrew Wheeler cited the small annual increases as evidence the Obama era requirements are "unfeasible."

A group representing nearly all major automakers said the report "demonstrates the market challenges that exist" and noted most automakers needed to rely on credits to comply with 2018 requirements. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Oilpan4
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Re: GCC: Actual fuel economy of cars and light trucks: 1966-2017

Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:51 pm

Gasoline will eventually hit $5 a gallon. Oil being a finite resource and the buying power of the dollar always declining.
trumpvirus
Is going to get you.

cwerdna
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Re: GCC: Actual fuel economy of cars and light trucks: 1966-2017

Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:16 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:51 pm
Gasoline will eventually hit $5 a gallon. Oil being a finite resource and the buying power of the dollar always declining.
Probably, but for some states, it might take a very long time. In a long running gas prices thread at TivoCommunity, some folks are reporting under $2/gal now. One can look at https://gasprices.aaa.com/. You seem to have cheaper gas in your (NM?). It's pricey here in CA.

Below $3/gal is considered a "good deal" in my area. My local Gas Buddy page shows the cheapest in my metro area is $2.88/gal for regular and the highest for regular is at $4.79. That $4.79 is an aberration as the next highest regular gas price is $4.15/gal.

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Oilpan4
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Re: GCC: Actual fuel economy of cars and light trucks: 1966-2017

Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:13 pm

I think gasoline here is around $2.30 a gallon.
We only buy gas about once a month, the hybrid is nice and my wife pays for almost all of its gasoline.
trumpvirus
Is going to get you.

cwerdna
Posts: 10777
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: GCC: Actual fuel economy of cars and light trucks: 1966-2017

Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:17 pm

Someone in Elizabeth, CO at the long running gas prices thread on TiVoCommunity is reporting "$1.69 at 3 stations near each other and $1.89 at several stations ".

Thread at https://www.tivocommunity.com/community ... in.465557/. You need a free TCF account to see it.

It's pretty much above $3/gal at most gas stations here.

I got a push alert about this earlier today: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/08/oil-plu ... fears.html.

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'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

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LeftieBiker
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Re: GCC: Actual fuel economy of cars and light trucks: 1966-2017

Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:30 pm

Gee, maybe I should get some gas for the generator. ;)
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