Anyone banking their extra solar kWh?

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solarchargeddriver

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
49
Location
Colorado
I'm really curious if anyone is doing what we are doing in Colorado Xcel Energy territory, and if any other utilities allow banking of home solar kWh over-production.

We had a 5.59 kW solar system installed on our Aurora, Colo. rooftop almost exactly a year ago, partly in anticipation of powering a new LEAF with it. Well, we're still waiting, and waiting, and waiting on that EV ;-)

In the meantime, our system has overproduced by more than 5,000 kWh -- we've used about 3,600 kWh to power our home, meaning our system has produced a total of about 8,600 kWh in its first year. Xcel allows homeowners to bank these excess solar kWh indefinitely. This is definitely a much better choice than getting paid out for them, as Xcel charges 11 cents per kWh and pays solar over-producers a paltry 3 cents per kilowatt hour!

Again, I'm wondering if anyone else out there is doing the same thing: Banking excess solar kWh in anticipation of using them later for an EV.

If you are, it would be great to know:

1. The size of your system and how long you've had it;
2. What state/city you live in who your utility is that allows solar kWh banking;
3. How many kWh you've banked so far;
4. Whether you have a LEAF already and are still solar banking, or, if, like us, you're waiting on one while banking.

Ideally, I'd like to use this info for an entry I'd like to do on utility banking of extra solar kWh for SolarChargedDriving.Com -- http://solarchargeddriving.com

Thank you.

Cheers,
Christof Demont-Heinrich
 
Los Angeles DWP gives credit for solar electric overproduction based on the rate in effect at the time of production. This credit cannot be paid out but is available as long as the account is maintained. It can only be used for purchase of electricity from LADWP and other associated charges.
 
I live in California and PGE is not banking the extra Kwh my system produce but I will get a check at the end of the year because of the buy back program.

5.0 Kwh
Dinuba, Ca
Leaf delivery 4/17/2011
 
We're on whole house TOU with SCE, with our monthly base allowance broken up across the three rates (Peak, Off-Peak, and Super Off-Peak), so it's a bit more complex than a straight generated this, used that scenario.

But, in any case, we've generated 2500kWh since the meter went in a couple of months ago and we've used 1400kWh. Now, we'd have used a bit more if I was actually working full-time (currently furloughed 2 days a week, so using approximately 35kWh less a week), and I expect to use the credit we'll have "banked" over the long summer months once we get into lesser winter production. But I may still get a small check at the end of the year. :D
 
In California with SCE also. SCE allows annual net metering but zeroes out the account annually. In previous years we've received "bupkis" (zero, nada, zilch) for our overproduction, but this year SCE will pay some paltry amount, the amount per kWh still pending agreement with the PUC.

I overproduced about 2,200 kWh last year, before receiving my LEAF. I expect to underproduce this year, but still have a net bill of zero due to TOU rates.
 
91040 said:
Los Angeles DWP gives credit for solar electric overproduction based on the rate in effect at the time of production. This credit cannot be paid out but is available as long as the account is maintained. It can only be used for purchase of electricity from LADWP and other associated charges.
Are you certain of this? Do you have a URL with details? I was told that LADWP has a "net metering" system that will only allow you to offset your use with your production within a certain "window" - but - I've never found clarification as to what that "window" is - it might be only one billing cycle (two months), it might be as much as a year. But I'd always heard that excess capacity cannot be banked, cashed out or otherwise used. It's "use it within the window or lose it".

I'd love to hear differently...
 
Here, our utility pays around .03/kwh for any excess on April 30. We aren't allowed to 'bank' them for more than a year. So my strategy is to use them all up before April 30. :mrgreen:
 
ahagge said:
91040 said:
Los Angeles DWP gives credit for solar electric overproduction based on the rate in effect at the time of production. This credit cannot be paid out but is available as long as the account is maintained. It can only be used for purchase of electricity from LADWP and other associated charges.
Are you certain of this? Do you have a URL with details? I was told that LADWP has a "net metering" system that will only allow you to offset your use with your production within a certain "window" - but - I've never found clarification as to what that "window" is - it might be only one billing cycle (two months), it might be as much as a year. But I'd always heard that excess capacity cannot be banked, cashed out or otherwise used. It's "use it within the window or lose it".

I'd love to hear differently...
http://www.ladwp.com/ladwp/cms/ladwp000787.jsp
http://www.ladwp.com/ladwp/cms/ladwp013472.pdf

SOLAR INFORMATIONAL Q & A

Q: I have credits in the bank, and I didn’t use any power from LADWP, why is my bill $22.00?
A: You are on the residential standard rate R1A. Under this rate, there is a minimum charge of $10 per month, plus ECA, RCA, ESA, City Tax, and State Surcharges. If your energy charge is less than $10 monthly, you will receive a bill for the minimum charge of $10 per month. Residents are usually billed bi-monthly, so the minimum bill would be $20 plus $2 city tax for a total of $22. It may be more beneficial for you to be on the residential Time-of-Use (TOU) rate, R1B.

Q: I am billed on the Residential Rate R-1A. I have credits in the bank, why do I still have a bill to pay?
A: Your banked credits ONLY apply towards your Energy Charge, as long as your energy charge is greater than the minimum charge ($10 monthly/$20 bi-monthly).

Q: I am billed on the Residential TOU Rate R-1B, what part of my bill do my banked credits apply towards?
A: Your banked credits apply towards all the LADWP charges (Service Charge, Energy Charge, ECA, ESA, and RCA charges). Banked credits DO NOT apply towards taxes (City, State Surcharge).

Q: I am billed on Residential TOU Rate R-1B, how much money do I get for my credits?
A: Credits are earned at the dollar value during the time period that you generate your power. If you generate more energy during the high-peak period, your credit will be at the high peak price. It is then applied to your total bill, except to the taxes (City, State Surcharge).

Q: How long do my credits last – is there an expiration date on the credits?
A: Your credits will go into a credit “bank”. There is no time limit for your credits. If you move out of your house or close your electric account, any previously banked credits are not refunded. You cannot transfer credits to another residence when you move.

Q: How do I request to be billed on TOU?
A: If you are a new solar customer waiting for your LADWP final inspection, please contact LADWP’s Solar Department at (213) 367-4122. If you’re an existing solar customer, please call the Rates Section at (213) 367-4718 and request a customer request form to change your billing to the optional R-1B Rate. The Rates Section can email, fax or mail you a request form.

Q: Why is my electric bill delayed?
A: The process of billing our solar customers on R-1A or R-1B is a manual operation, as opposed to the non-solar customers which are billed through our automated system. This manual operation naturally causes a delay. We anticipate having a new billing system capable of billing all of our customers automatically within two years.

Q: My bill still seems high after the solar installation, why?
A: There are several reasons that this could happen, some include: 1) Your bill includes closing reads from your previous meter. 2) Electric usage in your household increased. Please contact LADWP’s Solar Department at (213) 367-4122 for an investigation into your usage.

Q: If I want information regarding my solar application, solar inspection/approval, or net TOU meter install before the solar panels are installed, who do I contact?
A: Contact LADWP’s Solar Department (213) 367-4122
 
ahagge said:
91040 said:
Los Angeles DWP gives credit for solar electric overproduction based on the rate in effect at the time of production. This credit cannot be paid out but is available as long as the account is maintained. It can only be used for purchase of electricity from LADWP and other associated charges.
Are you certain of this? Do you have a URL with details? I was told that LADWP has a "net metering" system that will only allow you to offset your use with your production within a certain "window" - but - I've never found clarification as to what that "window" is - it might be only one billing cycle (two months), it might be as much as a year. But I'd always heard that excess capacity cannot be banked, cashed out or otherwise used. It's "use it within the window or lose it".

I'd love to hear differently...

Consider this hearing differently.
I have had solar since 2008 with LADWP and have the first issued residential TOU on a solar system, which went into service that Sept.
I have banked power most months (except for the dark times in winter) and it carries over year to year.
I am not sure who told you what, but this is the straight skinny.
The TOU rate is fantastic in the four summer months, and OK in the other 8. The base rate runs from 8pm to 10 am and all day Saturday and Sunday, which makes for effortless and copious charging times for me. In summer, it is 22 cents high peak versus 8 cents base, and the low peak rate is 14 cents.

There is even a 2.5-cent a kWh discount if you sign up for the EV rate and have a TOU meter.
You do not need to get a dedicated meter for the charger; whole house TOU qualifies you.
In addition, Ecotality will let you in the project under that whole-house TOU, if you have solar. You do not need to break up your service with a second meter dedicated to the Blink, as this totally screws the solar connection for car charging.

I suspect my banking days are over with the 300kWh/month to run the Leaf, but I will assess that after a year of use. RIght now, I have more than enough banked to cover that cost. The first month -- May -- I was assessed $8 for the car use and household electric, after net metering. That does not include the $8 service charge.
(the calculation is not straight-forward as the car was here for just over a month and the bill covers 60 days.)
 
We have net-metering here in Washington, so in essence I can bank my kWH in a way ( i get a credit for extra kWH fed to the grid at the current purchase price in addition to production incentives for gross production). Alas, in this climate, ~ 1000 kWh per year and kW installed are probably the maximum you can get, so overproduction is not really an issue.
 
In Phoenix/Scottsdale, our power is provided primarily by either APS or SRP
I can only speak of my provider, APS

1. The size of your system and how long you've had it;
My system is 5.52 kW, and it has been operational since March
2. What state/city you live in who your utility is that allows solar kWh banking;
I live in Scottsdale, AZ and my utility, APS allows NET METERING
3. How many kWh you've banked so far;
I have currently banked 1.1 mWh
4. Whether you have a LEAF already and are still solar banking, or, if, like us, you're waiting on one while banking.
I received my LEAF mid-April and am banking kWh for the July/August usage months

Note: Net Metering is the local terminology for what you describe as BANKING.
However, APS Nets out annually on 12/31. SRP Nets out 5/31 (i believe). So far, this has worked out GREAT
 
We have a system that produces 6.7 kW at its peak. It was put on line on June 2, 2010. At June 2, 2011 it had produced almost 16,000 kWh. In March our electric utility (NEC) wrote us a check for $156 which was for over 6,000 kWh that we sent to them (only 2.3 cents/kWh). We have since taken delivery on our LEAF and expect that next year we will have used about 3,000 kWh more than last year. In order to get those savings we looked at every item in our house to conserve energy without lowering our standard of living. For anyone that's interested, I've written a very informal topic outline of all the things that we have done to lower our energy usage without lowering our standard of living. Send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you a "pdf" of the outline.
 
ERG4ALL said:
We have a system that produces 6.7 kW at its peak. It was put on line on June 2, 2010. At June 2, 2011 it had produced almost 16,000 kWh. In March our electric utility (NEC) wrote us a check for $156 which was for over 6,000 kWh that we sent to them (only 2.3 cents/kWh). We have since taken delivery on our LEAF and expect that next year we will have used about 3,000 kWh more than last year. In order to get those savings we looked at every item in our house to conserve energy without lowering our standard of living. For anyone that's interested, I've written a very informal topic outline of all the things that we have done to lower our energy usage without lowering our standard of living. Send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you a "pdf" of the outline.
I'm with PG&E and as was said earlier they don't offer banking as far as I know (after the end of your net metering year). I wish they did though since the delayed Leaf delivery threw off my master plan too... :lol:

BTW, happy summer solstice (yesterday)!! My system has been producing about 45 kWh daily this week.
 
thankyouOB said:
Consider this hearing differently.

Thanks for that information...it's great news. I've been on solar since 12/10, and am on standard tiered rates (not TOU) even though I have a whole-house TOU meter installed.

Based on what you've said, it sounds like I should look into whole-house TOU with the EV rate. I'll likely monitor my usage for a few months once I get the LEAF and switch if it looks like I'm using more than I'm producing, especially in the fall & winter months.
 
ahagge said:
thankyouOB said:
Consider this hearing differently.

Thanks for that information...it's great news. I've been on solar since 12/10, and am on standard tiered rates (not TOU) even though I have a whole-house TOU meter installed.

Based on what you've said, it sounds like I should look into whole-house TOU with the EV rate. I'll likely monitor my usage for a few months once I get the LEAF and switch if it looks like I'm using more than I'm producing, especially in the fall & winter months.
why would you be on tiers with solar. it makes no sense.
what am I missing?
 
ERG4ALL said:
We have a system that produces 6.7 kW at its peak. It was put on line on June 2, 2010. At June 2, 2011 it had produced almost 16,000 kWh. In March our electric utility (NEC) wrote us a check for $156 which was for over 6,000 kWh that we sent to them (only 2.3 cents/kWh). We have since taken delivery on our LEAF and expect that next year we will have used about 3,000 kWh more than last year. In order to get those savings we looked at every item in our house to conserve energy without lowering our standard of living. For anyone that's interested, I've written a very informal topic outline of all the things that we have done to lower our energy usage without lowering our standard of living. Send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you a "pdf" of the outline.

$156 for 6,000 kWh is outrageous. Utilities shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. I feel fortunate that Xcel offers the unlimited banking option (though it tries pretty hard to point customers away from this option), with us sitting on 5,000 banked kWh now. As we all know, these extra kWh are 15 times, or more, valuable as a gasoline replacement than as over-production kWh paid out by one's utility.

Of course, I'm a bit anxious that Xcel might suddenly pull the rug out from us (hopefully, legally, it can't), as we wait, and wait, and wait, and wait for EVs to get to Colorado. The way things are going we're going to need two plug-ins to actually get to the point where we start to dig into our thousands of banked kWh. Only trouble is, we can't afford both a LEAF and Volt (we're going to need one PHEV for longer trips), couldn't even afford 2 LEAFs, actually :-(
 
ERG4ALL said:
We have a system that produces 6.7 kW at its peak. It was put on line on June 2, 2010. At June 2, 2011 it had produced almost 16,000 kWh.
Those are spectacular panels. What are they? The general rule of thumb is that, assuming good siting and no obstructions, over the course of a year a PV system in Phoenix might produce 1650 wh or 1.65 kWh per installed watt. Your panels are producing more like 2.4 kWh per year per installed watt.
 
thankyouOB said:
ahagge said:
thankyouOB said:
Consider this hearing differently.

Thanks for that information...it's great news. I've been on solar since 12/10, and am on standard tiered rates (not TOU) even though I have a whole-house TOU meter installed.

Based on what you've said, it sounds like I should look into whole-house TOU with the EV rate. I'll likely monitor my usage for a few months once I get the LEAF and switch if it looks like I'm using more than I'm producing, especially in the fall & winter months.
why would you be on tiers with solar. it makes no sense.
what am I missing?

Because that's what I was previously on, and with solar I'm hoping to never use more than I produce (certainly never enough to go above lowest-tier rates). But from the posted FAQ (thanks for posting it 91040!), it sounds like R1A may include a minimum $10/month charge which may be reduced or eliminated using the R1B (TOU) rate. This was the first I'd heard of that, so I'm definitely going to look into it.

I love the insights that you can get from reading these forums! :)
 
ERG4ALL said:
In March our electric utility (NEC) wrote us a check for $156 which was for over 6,000 kWh that we sent to them (only 2.3 cents/kWh).

granted, different area, much less solar, etc. but in WA State, if you use a WA State licensed solar installer with panels built in WA State you are paid at the rate of 54 cents/kwh. ya, that would be $3240 if getting paid for that much power.

granted we aint got sun, but we do have some people making a killing on solar. i know a guy charging 2 EVs, getting all his electricity for free and still banking nearly $1,000 a year on the buy back program. he is smiling all the way to the bank!
 
SilverLeaf said:
SRP Nets out 5/31 (i believe).

Welcome back SilverLeaf!
SRP buys back any 'banked' Kwhs on April 30th every year at around .03/Kwh. That's why I'm planning on using up any surplus before Apr. 30.
 
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