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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: 7.5 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline?

Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:32 pm

At 10 cents a kWh, that would be 75 cents out of the roughly $2.06 a gallon of gasoline is going for today. Not seein it.
LTL
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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: 7.5 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline?

Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:37 pm

evnow wrote:Further out of 100 barrels that go into a refinery only 73 barrels of transportation fluids come out.
Of course a lot of other interesting things are contained in the other 27 barrels, one of them being the asphalt for the roads you'll be driving your EVs on.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

indyflick
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Re: 7.5 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline?

Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:14 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:At 10 cents a kWh, that would be 75 cents out of the roughly $2.06 a gallon of gasoline is going for today. Not seein it.
For very large industrial electricity consumption the rates are more like 4 to 5 cents a kWh. Todays spot prices for Palo Verde, firm on-peak was 4.12 cents a kWh. These refineries are typically the electrical companies largest customers, so they get the best pricing.

Refining costs are presently about 40 cents per gallon of gasoline. I suspect the bulk of that goes to electricity and NG.

AndyH
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Re: 7.5 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline?

Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:10 pm

For what they're worth:
http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2 ... -thoughts/
And after all, oil refineries are no candidates for LEED green building certificates.

It takes about 7.5 kwh of electric power to refine a gallon of gasoline. An electric car can go 25 miles on that much power. So your conventional gasoline car is already consuming just as much electricity as my electric car. — BBHY
http://evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1715
So, as a nation, we use 140 kWh of electric to produce 1300 kWh of IC fuel to go 760 miles, even if some cars use more and others use less.
So we, as a people, could get the 700 miles of transport without any further expenditure of energy, and still keep the barrel of oil in the ground, thus avoiding its expense, the oil wars needed to obtain and defend it, the air, ground and water pollution and the health problems it causes.
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evnow
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Re: 7.5 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline?

Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:27 pm

indyflick wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:At 10 cents a kWh, that would be 75 cents out of the roughly $2.06 a gallon of gasoline is going for today. Not seein it.
For very large industrial electricity consumption the rates are more like 4 to 5 cents a kWh. Todays spot prices for Palo Verde, firm on-peak was 4.12 cents a kWh. These refineries are typically the electrical companies largest customers, so they get the best pricing.

Refining costs are presently about 40 cents per gallon of gasoline. I suspect the bulk of that goes to electricity and NG.
Not just that - a lot of refineries produce electricity on premise - and even sell back to the utilities.

Anyway, this is going to be my favorite retort whenever I hear FUD about shifting emissions from tail pipe to smoke stack.
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Rik
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Re: 7.5 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:45 am

I'm a chemical engineer who works in oil refining. The refinery I work for uses less than 1 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline, and I don't think it's unusual in that respect.

AndyH
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Re: 7.5 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:17 am

Rik wrote:I'm a chemical engineer who works in oil refining. The refinery I work for uses less than 1 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline, and I don't think it's unusual in that respect.
What other sources of energy are also used?

Rik
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Re: 7.5 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:32 am

AndyH wrote:
Rik wrote:I'm a chemical engineer who works in oil refining. The refinery I work for uses less than 1 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline, and I don't think it's unusual in that respect.
What other sources of energy are also used?
Natural gas is used to fire heaters and to produce the electricity and steam that oil refineries use.

A byproduct of oil refining is a light hydrocarbon fuel gas that is also burned in refineries, offsetting some of the need for natural gas.

AndyH
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Re: 7.5 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:38 am

Rik wrote:
AndyH wrote:
Rik wrote:I'm a chemical engineer who works in oil refining. The refinery I work for uses less than 1 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline, and I don't think it's unusual in that respect.
What other sources of energy are also used?
Natural gas is used to fire heaters and to produce the electricity and steam that oil refineries use.

A byproduct of oil refining is a light hydrocarbon fuel gas that is also burned in refineries, offsetting some of the need for natural gas.
Makes sense - thanks. I expect that different refineries have a different energy mix as well. Some of the large complexes in the Houston area apparently have their own on-site power plants (like the gas units you mentioned). There are a couple of smaller refineries in San Antonio that work with intermediate liquid products and make final products (jet fuel, diesel, etc.) and they don't have the 'free' natural gas to use.

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evnow
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Re: 7.5 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:43 am

Rik wrote:
AndyH wrote:
Rik wrote:I'm a chemical engineer who works in oil refining. The refinery I work for uses less than 1 kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline, and I don't think it's unusual in that respect.
What other sources of energy are also used?
Natural gas is used to fire heaters and to produce the electricity and steam that oil refineries use.

A byproduct of oil refining is a light hydrocarbon fuel gas that is also burned in refineries, offsetting some of the need for natural gas.
Yes - thats why we should really be talking about energy used rather than electricity used.

Rik, do you know what the kwh equivalent energy that is used for refining ?
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