Page 5 of 8

Re: 2018 Nissan Leaf vs Toyota Prius Prime

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:07 pm
by SageBrush
DSM needs a new entry: VAD
Volt Anxiety Disorder, characterized by anti-social behavior brought on by a general apathy toward the owner's car choice.

Re: 2018 Nissan Leaf vs Toyota Prius Prime

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:05 am
by powersurge
Reading this has been like reading a Hillary vs trump festival.

So now our country is divided into an EV vs PHEV. Will this country survive?

Re: 2018 Nissan Leaf vs Toyota Prius Prime

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:10 am
by RonDawg
powersurge wrote:Reading this has been like reading a Hillary vs trump festival.

So now our country is divided into an EV vs PHEV. Will this country survive?
Not so much EV vs PHEV as Prius Prime vs. anything else.

Re: 2018 Nissan Leaf vs Toyota Prius Prime

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:29 am
by LeftieBiker
I think the Prime will serve the EV community the same way the Prius and then the PIP did: by functioning as a 'gateway drug' to electric driving.

Re: 2018 Nissan Leaf vs Toyota Prius Prime

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:25 am
by SageBrush
LeftieBiker wrote:I think the Prime will serve the EV community the same way the Prius and then the PIP did: by functioning as a 'gateway drug' to electric driving.
That has most certainly been true for me.

Re: 2018 Nissan Leaf vs Toyota Prius Prime

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:10 am
by rmay635703
LeftieBiker wrote:I think the Prime will serve the EV community the same way the Prius and then the PIP did: by functioning as a 'gateway drug' to electric driving.
The Prime and The Volt offer local EV commuting ability with the ability to drive in non-electric friendly areas of the country.

If the Prime would have come out in 2011 with the solar option I might own one today due to its storage space.

For those in a single car situation a PHEV continues to be much more workable since most areas in flyover country have no usable charging infrastructure. (A single QC 5 miles from my house but not along my trip or destination is useless to me) out west EVs are too cumbersome even if I had a Tesla, when I've tried to visit chargers out there they are usually down or in one case, listed but not open to the public (no Yellowstone really doesn't have charge infrastructure contrary to what some may say)

The Volt despite its stated MSRP can usually be had for less $$$ than a Prime or even a PIP.

Mathematical as one guy above mentioned you have to do your own numbers, I'm averaging 45mpg gas only and 60.2 miles ev range per charge over the 48,000 mile life of my car thus far.

The real up front cost is very important, I found a used volt for $3990, I almost got one for my folks.
Same goes for older leafs, at $4000 they make a good local transit option.

On the twice weekly 100ish mile trip I listed I'm running a lower energy use than said Prime on a 90 mile trip.

Because I care about efficiency I drive probably more effiently than most leaf owners here. I likely beat their range on battery some days as well.

I strongly believe in using the tools you already have to the fullest.

But I also own a Honda Insight that gets driven in non-Volt friendly conditions and takes the salt on some days while the Volt is garaged. Gotta use the right tool for the job.

I am looking to make that one plug in also though.

I guess if truthful is anti social
I'm gonna have to be anti social

The right car for the job depends on the job

Re: 2018 Nissan Leaf vs Toyota Prius Prime

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:19 am
by SageBrush
rmay635703 wrote: On the twice weekly 100ish mile trip I listed I'm running a lower energy use than said Prime on a 90 mile trip.
Nah.

You just have to look at the MPGe of each car to know that is quite unlikely.
I suspect you at a minimum are ignoring your electricity related pollution.

To recap: I use 6.3 kWh of electricity from the wall and ~ 0.8 G of petrol for 90 miles.
Turn this e.g. into CO2e presuming 25 lbs CO2 per gallon and 1.5 pounds CO2 per kWh*
The Prime over 90 miles works out to 25*0.8 + 6.3*1.5 = 29.45 CO2 pounds

We can also go through this exercise for Nox and Sox but you will *really* not like the results.


*My electricity is from my home PV, but I can still calculate as if I used grid electricity since any amount I do not use offsets dirty electricity elsewhere. 1.5 pounds CO2e per kWh is ~ national grid average and corresponds to half NG, half coal.

Re: 2018 Nissan Leaf vs Toyota Prius Prime

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:16 am
by rmay635703
I used .5553 gallons of gas
And 12kwhr from the wall to go
Over 99 miles

So I guess pretending that the local hydro which exports energy to many communities doesn't exist we come in at

0.5553 x 25lbs + 12kwhr (at wall) x 1.5 = 31.88 lbs of CO2

0.32 lbs per mile Volt
0.327 lbs per mile Prius

Interesting, so twice a week we're at par assuming I'm coal fired.

Then during the week when I'm 100% EV I beat you at .25lbs per mile again omitting the fact my area is a net exporter of hydro energy.

Re: 2018 Nissan Leaf vs Toyota Prius Prime

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:49 am
by rcm4453
LeftieBiker wrote:I think the Prime will serve the EV community the same way the Prius and then the PIP did: by functioning as a 'gateway drug' to electric driving.

+1


I started out with a 2011 Volt and got really addicted to the silky smooth, quiet electric drive! I hated it when the ICE would kick in, would wreck the whole driving experience for me. It's almost like a drug, you end up wanting more all electric range, at least that's what happened to me. I found myself treating it like a 35 - 42 mile range BEV as I would try so hard to not use the ICE. I now have a Leaf and couldn't be happier! All my driving/commuting is 100% electric drive now, no more noisy vibrating ICE to wreck the driving experience. I guess I'm an "all or nothing" kind of guy! Too me a PHEV or EREV is like having a 4K Ultra HDTV but half the time you're forced to watch standard definition 480i content on it!

Re: 2018 Nissan Leaf vs Toyota Prius Prime

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:21 pm
by LeftieBiker
Pity those of us who had to try to get their electric kicks driving a non-PHEV Prius. You could drive MAYBE one whole mile at a time in EV...