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They won't say...perhaps they're tweeking algorhythms to get the best they can out of it without overheating an inverter or something, but I think they'd be blaring it from the rooftops if it was anywhere close to 10 seconds....I'm betting on around 15 seconds.
 
15 seconds, in a vehicle of this mass with an 80kW motor? Not a chance. It should be around 10 seconds, same as a Prius.

For comparison, the MiEV is 76% the curb weight of the Leaf, but has a motor 59% as powerful. It does 0-60 in 13 seconds. The Tesla Roadster is 90% the curb weight of the Leaf and has a motor 2.6x as powerful. It does 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. Both of these numbers suggest around 10 seconds.

However, Nissan's released documents suggest numbers more impressive than that. I remember seeing a PDF that shows its accel as being just below that of two nice Infiniti models. Anyone know where to get a copy of that PDF?
 
KarenRei said:
15 seconds, in a vehicle of this mass with an 80kW motor? Not a chance. It should be around 10 seconds, same as a Prius.

For comparison, the MiEV is 76% the curb weight of the Leaf, but has a motor 59% as powerful. It does 0-60 in 13 seconds. The Tesla Roadster is 90% the curb weight of the Leaf and has a motor 2.6x as powerful. It does 0-60 in about 4 seconds. Both of these numbers suggest around 10 seconds.

However, Nissan's released documents suggest numbers more impressive than that. I remember seeing a PDF that shows its accel as being just below that of two nice Infiniti models. Anyone know where to get a copy of that PDF?
Hope you're right.
 
Yeah, there's this nearly 60 page PDF that goes into all sorts of stuff about the Leaf out there. If I remember right, the 0-30 time listed for it was about 4 seconds. They also had a 40-60 time, but I forget what it was.
 
The attached article claims 0-60 in 9-10 seconds....that would not seem out of the range with an electric motor....of course, that will drain that battery pretty darn quick as well!

http://www.automobile.com/2012-nissan-leaf-review.html
 
KarenRei said:
15 seconds, in a vehicle of this mass with an 80kW motor? Not a chance. It should be around 10 seconds, same as a Prius.

For comparison, the MiEV is 76% the curb weight of the Leaf, but has a motor 59% as powerful. It does 0-60 in 13 seconds. The Tesla Roadster is 90% the curb weight of the Leaf and has a motor 2.6x as powerful. It does 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. Both of these numbers suggest around 10 seconds.

What is the weight of Leaf ?

However, Nissan's released documents suggest numbers more impressive than that. I remember seeing a PDF that shows its accel as being just below that of two nice Infiniti models. Anyone know where to get a copy of that PDF?

http://www.nctcog.org/trans/air/programs/evnt/NissanLeaf_Oct09.pdf ?

 
sjfotos said:
The attached article claims 0-60 in 9-10 seconds....that would not seem out of the range with an electric motor....of course, that will drain that battery pretty darn quick as well!

http://www.automobile.com/2012-nissan-leaf-review.html
It will drain the battery only if you do a lot of it. Floor it at every corner stop sign, and then pound on the brake at the next corner (even with regeneative braking) will play havoc with any car's FE. But if you have to get on the freeway and you floor it once to merge with traffic, and then do the same once on your return trip, that's not going to make much difference to your range.

15 seconds would be a deal breaker for me, as I do not feel it allows safe merging onto the freeway. But I thought I heard ten seconds, also. And I think my Prius is supposed to be 11 seconds. So the Leaf would be just slightly better.
 
KarenRei said:
15 seconds, in a vehicle of this mass with an 80kW motor? Not a chance. It should be around 10 seconds, same as a Prius.

For comparison, the MiEV is 76% the curb weight of the Leaf, but has a motor 59% as powerful. It does 0-60 in 13 seconds. The Tesla Roadster is 90% the curb weight of the Leaf and has a motor 2.6x as powerful. It does 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. Both of these numbers suggest around 10 seconds.

However, Nissan's released documents suggest numbers more impressive than that. I remember seeing a PDF that shows its accel as being just below that of two nice Infiniti models. Anyone know where to get a copy of that PDF?

No, but I remember they said it would be like having a V6 under the hood, so I'm guessing it will be under 10 secs...can't wait to go flying buy all the Priuses...lol. :)
 
Won't repeated hard acceleration stress the battery pack, generating more heat? I was under the impression the way to get the most life out of the battery was to baby it... slow charging, slow discharging. That's how it always worked with my RC cars!
 
Not sure this is accurate, but according to this story, the 0-60 mph time is about 8 seconds...


http://www.optoiq.com/index/lasers-for-manufacturing/display/ils-wire-news-display/144114327.html
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Won't repeated hard acceleration stress the battery pack, generating more heat? I was under the impression the way to get the most life out of the battery was to baby it... slow charging, slow discharging. That's how it always worked with my RC cars!
Repeated, yes. But you want to have the torque available when it's needed. That may be only when entering the freeway, in which case there is no appreciable stress on the batteries, but it makes the car a lot safer than if you can never get up to 60 in less than 15 seconds!
 
Re, energy used for hard accel:

1) Motor efficiency varies, and it's hard to make any generalizations. Depending on the situation, a high torque accel may actually be *more* efficient than a slow one. Or less. You need the brake-specific energy consumption data for the powertrain.
2) Battery pack efficiency does drop with increased currents, but for li-ion, that drop is very small.
3) In terms of energy used, the laws of physics don't care whether you go from 0-60 in 2 seconds or 20 -- excepting that in 2 seconds, you'll have 18 more seconds of the sort of aerodynamic drag you get at high speeds ;)

So really, sharp accel should have minimal impact on your net energy consumption in a li-ion EV (lead-acid being a different story). Now, when it comes to *braking*, that's altogether different. Even with regen, you still want to minimize how often you brake. So if accelerating hard means you'll also be braking more, than *that* will hurt your range. But accelerating hard then coasting down? Don't worry about it. :)
 
sjfotos said:
Not sure this is accurate, but according to this story, the 0-60 mph time is about 8 seconds...


http://www.optoiq.com/index/lasers-for-manufacturing/display/ils-wire-news-display/144114327.html

Wow! That was one of the best articles I've read so far. Thanks! :)
2.5L V6 is sooo cool! I don't think my Toyota Celica GT-S could do 0-60 in 8 sec...that was a 2.2L DOHC 4...more like around 10-11 prob. I'm really going to enjoy passing all the Priuses! LOL
 
[quote2.5L V6 is sooo cool! I don't think my Toyota Celica GT-S could do 0-60 in 8 sec...that was a 2.2L DOHC 4...more like around 10-11 prob. I'm really going to enjoy passing all the Priuses! LOL[/quote]

You may pass me, but I will catch you down the road if we are going any distance above 70-100mi . I have a 10KWh PHEV Prius. Range anywhere from 700-1000mi. http://www.smilingdogsranch.com/prius blog.

Still the Leaf has its place, as the first full-scale, reasonably-priced, production EV and though it has limited range, as the infrastructure improves we will learn to deal with it.
 
Remember too that all this is done electronically. What the car is theoretically capable of may not be how Nissan releases it.

The RAV4-EV was intended for fleet use more than general population, so this is not likely to happen to the Leaf - but when first released the drivers were getting such a kick out of spinning the tires that Toyota was requested to force slower acceleration. It ended up being rated 0-60 in 16 seconds with a 50kW motor.
 
KarenRei said:
Re, energy used for hard accel:

1) Motor efficiency varies, and it's hard to make any generalizations. Depending on the situation, a high torque accel may actually be *more* efficient than a slow one. Or less. You need the brake-specific energy consumption data for the powertrain.
2) Battery pack efficiency does drop with increased currents, but for li-ion, that drop is very small.
3) In terms of energy used, the laws of physics don't care whether you go from 0-60 in 2 seconds or 20 -- excepting that in 2 seconds, you'll have 18 more seconds of the sort of aerodynamic drag you get at high speeds ;)

So really, sharp accel should have minimal impact on your net energy consumption in a li-ion EV (lead-acid being a different story). Now, when it comes to *braking*, that's altogether different. Even with regen, you still want to minimize how often you brake. So if accelerating hard means you'll also be braking more, than *that* will hurt your range. But accelerating hard then coasting down? Don't worry about it. :)
This runs counter to my experience with my Zap Xebra and also counter to my experience with my electric Porsche (during the short time I was driving it -- long story). Flooring the go pedal does seem to shorten range if it is done frequently. My point above was that if you have the capability you need not use it, but if you lack the capability you can never do it.

If I want to drive the Xebra close to its range limit, I must drive very gently. But when I am not concerned about range, because I'm going to drive a shorter distance, I can floor it. And if I floor it once or twice when conditions make that desirable, it has minimal effect on range.
 
Dav said:
Remember too that all this is done electronically. What the car is theoretically capable of may not be how Nissan releases it.
Exactly. Assuming that the available power and capability of the motor can give you a 0-60 of 8 sec., Nissan's testing might show that "normal" drivers tend to accelerate hard enough that it has a negative impact on real world range. Negative press about range could kill this car before it gets started. If reports start surfacing of people running out of juice at 60 miles Nissan will have a serious problem after "promising" 100 mile range.

So, if they govern the acceleration rate to 'encourage' drivers to drive more conservatively and thus are better able to stretch the range close to the 100 mile mark that's one issue they don't have to worry about.

I think it'll be a balancing act...and others here may be right that 15 seconds is too long, but 12 seconds or so may be where the compromise comes. It really depends upon what Nissan decides to do I think.
 
This is one of the reasons that the whole electric / software combination is so much better than the previous mechanical solutions. Nissan can much more easily adjust some of these parameters as they gain information -- much easier than trying to upgrade gear ratios and Engine Control Modules even in current internal combustion models. Yes, there are physical limits inherent in the physical structure of the components, but they are much more easily adjusted, at least at the margins.
 
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