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Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 7:12 am
by evnow
TimeHorse wrote:Ah, but here's the rub: again, recall that that LA4's average speed is 19.6 mph, which on the Tesla chart comes to a maximum range of 410 mi.
You can't use the average speed in this case. LA4 is a lot of stop and go - which is a lot more energy consuming than a steady 20 mph driving (which is what the Tesla graph shows). From that graph you can see that @ 3 mph you consume as much as @ 65 mph.

Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:13 am
by TimeHorse
evnow wrote:
TimeHorse wrote:Ah, but here's the rub: again, recall that that LA4's average speed is 19.6 mph, which on the Tesla chart comes to a maximum range of 410 mi.
You can't use the average speed in this case. LA4 is a lot of stop and go - which is a lot more energy consuming than a steady 20 mph driving (which is what the Tesla graph shows). From that graph you can see that @ 3 mph you consume as much as @ 65 mph.
I was being tongue and cheek. The rest of my post explains:
TimeHorse wrote:... Of course, I said Average speed, there's a lot of faster and a lot of slower actually under real circumstances. So clearly, even the Tesla doesn't go around boasting a range of 410 mi because they'd be laughed out of business, at the very best!
Sorry if that wasn't clear, but my point was mainly that we don't know exactly what test Tesla ran to calculate all this, but it's pretty likely it was LA4, which does spend 259 seconds at complete rest. Peace!

Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 11:43 am
by evnow
TimeHorse wrote:Sorry if that wasn't clear, but my point was mainly that we don't know exactly what test Tesla ran to calculate all this, but it's pretty likely it was LA4, which does spend 259 seconds at complete rest. Peace!
I'd guess to get the curve - Tesla ran actual ot simulated tests at a given constant speed.

Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 1:54 pm
by TimeHorse
evnow wrote:I'd guess to get the curve - Tesla ran actual ot simulated tests at a given constant speed.
They could have just hooked up a dynamometer; that's what those thing's are for: measuring torque and power.

Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 2:11 pm
by DaveEV
evnow wrote:I'd guess to get the curve - Tesla ran actual ot simulated tests at a given constant speed.
Tesla used a computer to generate the curve. They have a complete model of the car so they can run arbitrary tests without using a physical car. They verified a number of data points and found the simulator to be accurate.

Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:57 pm
by soareyes
Maybe this will help.

I've been driving a Mini E for the last 11 months. It measured 156 miles on the LA4 test. Real world driving on a mix of city and freeway is about 100 miles. If the majority of time is spent on the freeway at 65 mph the range drops to about 80 miles. Some drivers can get up to 120 miles in stop and go city/suburban driving. The Mini E uses a 35 kWh battery, weighs about 3250 pounds, and is rated at 204 hp/162 lb-ft. Range drops significantly in cold (winter) temps.

It will be interesting to see what the real-world range of the Leaf actually is!

Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 5:45 pm
by garygid
So, "freeway" use for you is about 50% of the LA4 range.
So, with 37 mostly freeway miles one way (of which over half are typically "fast" miles), it appears that I will have to recharge while at work.
Thanks for your real-world input.

Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:00 pm
by soareyes
You can do better on the freeway by going slower. Frequently I will tuck in behind a semi in the slow lane and go 55-60 mph when I need to get max range.

I sometimes charge at work using 110v if I'll be going somewhere after work besides home. The Mini E won't charge fully in 8 hours at 110v, but it does pick up about 4 miles of range for each hour of charge. Most of my charging is done at home at 240v and takes 4 or 5 hours.

Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:17 pm
by LTLFTcomposite
soareyes wrote:Frequently I will tuck in behind a semi in the slow lane and go 55-60 mph when I need to get max range.
Doesn't doing that reduce the fuel economy of the truck, resulting in greater CO2 emissions into the atmosphere?

Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:36 pm
by soareyes
LTLFTcomposite wrote:
soareyes wrote:Frequently I will tuck in behind a semi in the slow lane and go 55-60 mph when I need to get max range.
Doesn't doing that reduce the fuel economy of the truck, resulting in greater CO2 emissions into the atmosphere?
No, the dead air zone behind the truck is there whether I'm taking advantage of it or not. I have no effect on his mpg.