Timf1981
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:14 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Dec 2018

Leaf potential modifications

Sat May 15, 2021 11:21 am

I have a 2012 leaf.
24 kwh battery
60% soh, 33 mile summer range. 15 winter.
The car has some damage.
And I am thinking about stripping the hood, doors , hatch, fenders . And selling them. And making some sort of off road vehicle with what remains. Not much ange needed.

? ? ? If I take out half of the cells. Will it still run with current electronics. Yes , the pack will be putting out only half the voltage.

Second option could be to open each cell and remove two of the pouches that are in parallel. So the pack voltage would still be correct. But half the capacity.
The pouches I remove would be made into a separate battery for a nother project.

Or will it be simpler to remove half the cells and purchase new inverter.

Any other ideas welcome.

LeftieBiker
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf potential modifications

Sat May 15, 2021 11:32 am

Don't try to disassemble the battery, unless you have done that sort of work before. You need full pack voltage to run the systems, and removing half the capacity will likely reduce the range by more than half.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15640
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Leaf potential modifications

Sat May 15, 2021 12:12 pm

Timf1981 wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 11:21 am
I have a 2012 leaf.
24 kwh battery
60% soh, 33 mile summer range. 15 winter.
The car has some damage.
And I am thinking about stripping the hood, doors , hatch, fenders . And selling them. And making some sort of off road vehicle with what remains. Not much ange needed.

? ? ? If I take out half of the cells. Will it still run with current electronics. Yes , the pack will be putting out only half the voltage.

Second option could be to open each cell and remove two of the pouches that are in parallel. So the pack voltage would still be correct. But half the capacity.
The pouches I remove would be made into a separate battery for a nother project.

Or will it be simpler to remove half the cells and purchase new inverter.

Any other ideas welcome.
The pouches you mention each have 4 cells in a 2S2P config. Why do you want to remove half the pack? and no, it won't run. The BMS processes are voltage controlled. Take out half the pack and you are in turtle mode for life.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
Stanton
Posts: 2349
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Leaf potential modifications

Sat May 15, 2021 1:18 pm

Timf1981 wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 11:21 am
Or will it be simpler to remove half the cells and purchase new inverter.

Any other ideas welcome.
What you propose is wrong on so many levels that I'm not even sure you realize how dangerous it is.
If you want something for a home project, go on eBay and buy a few (safely packaged) Leaf battery modules.
2011 Blue Ocean SV
12v LiFePO4 battery w/Antigravity Battery Tracker
FIAMM 74100 horns/Wet Okole seat covers/Tor's low-power heater mod/Dala's CAN-bridge
Lizard Pack (Rev E) installed @51 months/41k miles
40 kWh Pack (Gen2) installed @115 months/85k miles

Timf1981
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:14 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Dec 2018

Re: Leaf potential modifications

Sat May 15, 2021 4:10 pm

Here is a little more explaining

Ash Nguyen each cell has 4 pouches inside. All pouches are at 3.75 volts.

One cell is hooked -to- and +to+ with another pouch. Doubling the capacity but keeping 3.75 volts.
The same is done with the other two pouches.

The two sets are then hooked in series. Doubling the volts to 7.5 volts. Times the 48 cells equals the 360 pack voltage

So removing 24 cells will leave me 180 volts.

Would the stalk leaf system revolt? Or will the car just have less power.

If I remove the two pouches in parallel. I will still have two pouches hooked in series. So the cell will still show 7.5 volts. But will have half the capacity. This setup might sneak by the leaf system.

Even if power is reduced. It will still have plenty for what I might use it for.

Here is the breakdown of a leaf battery.
This guy has a number of great teardown

https://youtu.be/vYQJatWpBXY

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf potential modifications

Sat May 15, 2021 5:53 pm

The Leaf will NOT run with substantially reduced - much less halved - voltage, because as noted earlier, it uses the pack voltage as one way to determine when to shut the car down. If you keep the voltage the same and halve the capacity, I think that you will find that any marginal cells remaining that would have worked ok as part of a parallel "team" would likely 'sag' in voltage enough to cause the BMS to turtle the car. (This is another trigger for BMS shutdown.)
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 2955
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Leaf potential modifications

Sat May 15, 2021 9:07 pm

The lithium battery controller (AKA battery management system) continuously monitors all 96 cell-pair voltages. The car shows low battery warning, very low battery warning, and then turtle (power limited mode) as the voltage of the lowest cell-pair nears the minimum allowable voltage. The main contactor then opens and shuts the car down without further warning when the lowest cell-pair voltage reaches the minimum value. If you eliminate the parallel cells, the net internal resistance of the battery will be increased so voltage will sag more under even moderate load and the car will likely shut down prematurely. Buy another battery pack or some used modules for your other projects and leave the LEAF alone as long as you want to use it. Stripping doors, hood, etc. will not reduce weight enough to make a difference in range (range will probably be reduced due to increased aerodynamic drag). The doors and hood on 2011 and 2012 are aluminum so their weight is minimal.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 16945
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf potential modifications

Sat May 15, 2021 10:07 pm

I think the OP wanted to make a sort of Sand Blaster from the Leaf - an off-road vehicle with a largely exposed interior and exposed wheels.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15640
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Leaf potential modifications

Sun May 16, 2021 6:02 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 10:07 pm
I think the OP wanted to make a sort of Sand Blaster from the Leaf - an off-road vehicle with a largely exposed interior and exposed wheels.
Thinking the car is too heavy for that?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 16945
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf potential modifications

Sun May 16, 2021 9:47 am

I don't see it being tossed around on sand dunes. It would look more like a Blaster than perform like one. More power than the milder VW tunes, though. Less power than the more radical builds.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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