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Coal and Nuclear Beggars

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:46 am
by SageBrush
https://www.utilitydive.com/news/ohios- ... ot/559368/

"the bill would set aside about $50 million a year through 2030 to subsidize two large coal units built by the Ohio Valley Electric Corp in 1955"

"Approved Tuesday in the GOP dominated Ohio House by a 51 to 38 vote, mostly along partisan lines, the measure would provide FirstEnergy Solutions, owner of two Ohio nuclear plants, with about $1.1 billion through 2027"

Re: Coal and Nuclear Beggars

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:51 am
by Tortoisehead77
I'm no environmentalist. I drive the Leaf because I like electric motors better than ICE. However, even I can see that this is a terrible idea. The free market should dictate energy sources and consumption. Why does the federal government get to decide who wins and who loses?

Natural gas and renewables are often cheaper than coal and nuclear.

If you charge your Leaf in Ohio, does that mean it's really just a coal-powered car?

Re: Coal and Nuclear Beggars

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:11 am
by SageBrush
More ...
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/07 ... enewables/

To balance the budget, the subsidy will mostly be paid for by
1. Eliminating conservation and efficiency subsidies
2. Chopping renewables subsidies and renewable energy targets

Got that, folks ? Subsidizing conservation and renewable energy is 'government over-reach' but subsidizing nuclear and coal is not.

Repukes at work, when they are not busy pursuing ...[mod edited] agendas.

Re: Coal and Nuclear Beggars

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:32 pm
by TheLostPetrol
Tortoisehead77 wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:51 am
If you charge your Leaf in Ohio, does that mean it's really just a coal-powered car?
Generating electriy from coal emits 0.94 kg of CO2 per kWh (https://carbonpositivelife.com/co2-per- ... ectricity/).
The burning of gasoline emits 8.9 kg of CO2 per gallon (https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissio ... l_mass.php), less if there's ethanol in it whose CO2 you don't count, more because there are emissions from the gasoline's production and transportation.

So, if a "coal-powered" Leaf gets 4.0 mi/kWh, that's (0.94 kg/kWh)/(4.0 mi/kWh)=0.23 kg/mi, making the Leaf responsible for emitting as much CO2 as an ICE emits at (8.9 kg/gal)/(0.23 kg/mi)=38 mi/gal.

In the winter, I used to get 35 mi/gal on my Yaris. My Leaf, at 3.5 winter mi/kWh, would be, if charged only with coal-fired electricy, equivalent to 33 mi/gal.

In the summer, I used to get 40 mi/gal on my Yaris. My Leaf, at 5.0 summer mi/kWh, would be, if charged only with coal-fired elecricity, equivalent to 47 mi/gal.

I've heard that the city of Naperville, IL, signed a contract some time ago to purchase solely coal-fired electricity. Just in case that's true, I never recharge in Naperville. My electricity's from Commonwealth Edison, and last I heard, was only about 32% coal-generated.

Re: Coal and Nuclear Beggars

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:41 pm
by Tortoisehead77
TheLostPetrol wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:32 pm
Tortoisehead77 wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:51 am
If you charge your Leaf in Ohio, does that mean it's really just a coal-powered car?
I've seen somewhere that coal emits 0.94 kg of CO2 per kWh of electricity(1).
The burning of gasoline emits 8.9 kg of CO2 (https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissio ... l_mass.php), less if there ethanol in it whose CO2 you don't count, more because there are emissions from the gasoline's production and transportation.

So, if a "coal-powered" Leaf gets 4.0 mi/kWh, that's (0.94 kg/kWh)/(4.0 mi/kWh)=0.23 kg/mi, making the Leaf responsible for emitting as much CO2 as an ICE emits at (8.9 kg/gal)/(0.23 kg/mi)=38 mi/gal.

In the winter, I used to get 35 mi/gal on my Yaris. My Leaf, at 3.5 winter mi/kWh, would be, if charged only with coal-fired electricy, equivalent to 33 mi/gal.

In the summer, I used to get 40 mi/gal on my Yaris. My Leaf, at 5.0 summer mi/kWh, would be, if charged only with coal-fired elecricity, equivalent to 47 mi/gal.

I've heard that the city of Naperville, IL, signed a contract some time ago to purchase all-coal-fired electricity. Just in case that's true, I never recharge in Naperville. My electricity's from Commonwealth Edison, and last I heard, was only about 32% coal-generated.

(1) Needs citation.
Thanks. This is good information.

If idiot politicians will get out of the way, then most power sources will be natural gas or renewable in the future. In many states this is already the case.

Re: Coal and Nuclear Beggars

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:55 pm
by LeftieBiker
I've seen somewhere that coal emits 0.94 kg of CO2 per kWh of electricity(1).

"I've seen somewhere" isn't a great source. Assuming it's correct, though, I don't think the above takes into account all of the emissions (for example the emissions from refineries) produced by the Yaris, while it does for the Leaf.

Re: Coal and Nuclear Beggars

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:51 pm
by SageBrush
LeftieBiker wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:55 pm
I've seen somewhere that coal emits 0.94 kg of CO2 per kWh of electricity(1).

"I've seen somewhere" isn't a great source. Assuming it's correct
-
It is a fair number, and good enough because coal carbon intensity varies by type of coal from about 0.8 - 1.0 kg Co2/kWh. It also potentially varies by the electric plant. E..g., Japan has much more efficient reactors than the US. The US plants are pretty universally bad, converting ~ 33% of heat content to electricity.

Re: Coal and Nuclear Beggars

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:32 pm
by Oilpan4
Well boiling water reactors tend to be more efficient and blow up, that's what Japan has.
Pressurized water reactors are more widely used in the US, aren't as efficient and as far as I know a pressurized water reactor hasn't blown up.

I actually lived near and had been to fukushima nuclear power station.

My leaf is largely coal and natural gas powered when I charge at night.
If I charge during the day the wind farm to my south hits 100% rated output for a minimum of several hours a day, a lot of days it runs full power all day. Then the leaf is mostly wind powered.

My leaf gets 3.6 miles per kwh in the winter, some days it's as low as 2.8. Around 4 most of the time in warmer months, but this month, not pulling the trailer and barely using the air conditioning I'm at 4.8 miles per kwh over an average of 1,050 miles for july.

Re: Coal and Nuclear Beggars

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:59 am
by Oilpan4
Looks like this is going forward.
https://www.southerncompany.com/newsroo ... ogtle.html

Doesn't seem very stalled if they put the containment dome on last month and are now ordering fissile fuel.