Nissan shifts EV strategy to premium vehicles, not ‘discount cars’ like Leaf

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salyavin

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https://electrek.co/2019/12/04/nissan-shifts-ev-strategy-to-premium-vehicles-not-discount-cars-like-leaf/

"The new strategy will start with a new pure-electric crossover SUV, based on the Ariya concept, that would sell in Europe for the equivalent of between $55,000 and $78,000."

I still like to have discount electric cars available for the a huge segment of the population who does not want to spend so much on a car and may not need it. I am glad they are not discontinuing the Leaf, I just wish they'd add liquid cooling to be at least equal to the Bolt which to me is not as nice a car as the Leaf otherwise.
 
I posted this in another thread earlier today.

Personally I think Nissan doesn't know what they are talking about. The idea that the Leaf suffered because they discounted it? They sold it for the price people were willing to pay. I never would have paid full MSRP, 37k for my 2018 SV. I like it, but not by that margin. It is not exactly "ultimate" interior and it isn't liquid cooled, and the range of the standard is falling behind newer EVs. So his statement that it tarnished the Leaf brand makes no sense. The Leaf is not a luxury car and cannot be sold as one.

The second problem I have is with the pricing and strategy for the future. They have it wrong - what we NEED is EXACTLY a 25k-ish mass produced, 250-300 mile EV crossover. Something that already gets my blood boiling is the fact that among many in this country, they see EVs as expensive cars for the rich. It makes clean cars a joke. Nissan by charging 50-80k for the Ariya, is just cementing that view. It does a disservice to actually promoting EV adoption with the masses. I'm not saying you can't have a plush 50-80k suv, but not at the expense of serving the mainstream. Real EV acceptance requires not the wealthy but the 90%, and it has to be affordable and reasonably well equipped. Or they will not switch over.

So what happens to the leaf? It gets no updates? They raise the price? Everything opposite of what it needs?
 
I fully agree. I would take even a 200 mile 25K ev before incentive car. The MGZ I’m the U.K. comes close, but it is only about 150 mile car.

In spite of its short comings, the Leaf still sells well in Europe and a few other markets, but they can’t charge Tesla Prices for a Leaf. If my Plus SV with tech, climate, and other goodies was any more than the 30K (post Federal discount and including delivery) I would have likely moved to the Tesla as well. It’s completely priced at 30K (less in CO and CA), but DOA at the 42K msrp sticker.

I think the Leaf would sell better if they just listed a non-dealer-discountable Leaf Plus S at 30K and drop the lower mileage leaf.
 
Disappointing. They could sell a modest Arriya as 'Super Leaf' in the $30k range, and then have Infiniti sell a "Super Arriya" in the luxury market, with more HP, more bells & whistles etc.
 
If the interpretation is for their non-luxury segment then I completely agree the "shift" would be a colossal mistake.

HOWEVER, it's only an assumption by the new CEO commenting that the price would be that high for a NISSAN branded CUV EV. He's likely referring to INFINITI that would offer such an expensive vehicle. The vast majority of their current non-luxury vehicles don't even max out past $45,000.

I think the better question is when there will be the luxury Ariya like CUV (Infiniti QX EV) and / or when there will be a non-luxury Ariya like CUV (Nissan Rogue / Kicks EV). They better get moving or will get totally left behind in both segments.
 
I think that they are jumping on the same bandwagon as the current culture of Ebikes... You take a common $400 mountain bike, slap an electric motor and battery on it.... AND BINGO.. You have a $2,000 to $3,000+ Electric bicycle, which the Millennials are mass-consuming..

Electric car companies (Led by the loud TESLA) appear to be catering to the dream of people being ecological revolutionaries. The seem to be trying to brainwash people that they need a premium vehicle ($50K+) and electric is the "MOD" way to make that statement.

I agree that electric vehicles need to be for the masses, and are affordable. I would say, in the neighborhood of $30-$38k. Heck, I am still waiting for the day when I can get a new Leaf+ for $36-38K!!!!
 
powersurge said:
Heck, I am still waiting for the day when I can get a new Leaf+ for $36-38K!!!!

Well, if they do not do some updates over the next few years to the leaf, the price will have to fall or it will not be competitive.
For better or worse on the Tesla truck, it proved one thing, Tesla expects battery prices to drop significantly.

And I have played with the Kia Niro EV, and I personally find it superior to the leaf in almost every way. If the Niro EV was actually available in mass and the dealers were willing to negotiate on price, to me, it would be a clear winner over the leaf plus. The ONLY thing I found inferior to my leaf on the Niro EV was the stupid dongle that pops out for the charger. Nissan Leaf's spring loaded flap is so much nicer! But that is about it.
 
powersurge said:
Heck, I am still waiting for the day when I can get a new Leaf+ for $36-38K!!!!

We bought our Nissan Leaf+ SL for $40k out the door, you should easily(at least in Ohio or Maryland) be able to negotiate an SV+ to be $38k or less out the door.
 
I agree with most of the posters above. I'm still convinced that Nissan Leadership doesn't understand the Leaf, its limitations, advantages, and its failings. In particular, the statement that the Leaf is treated as a budget EV is because of discounting is really off. The Leaf isn't a budget EV due to its marketing and discounting--it's a budget EV due to its capabilities, battery issues, and lack of updates post sale.

If you want to have a successful premium EV, you have to *be* as good or better than a Tesla, not market and price different. If you want to have a successful budget EV, you need to cost less than a Tesla.

It really shouldn't be rocket science, but they still don't get it.
 
OrientExpress said:
Who has a 25k-ish mass produced, 250-300 mile EV crossover for sale today?

Nobody? Certainly not without Gov incentives.

I think the point, for me, was that Nissan was / is setting a philosophy of selling rich person's cars instead of actually trying to GET to that point.
And they certainly seem confused about what the Leaf is or is not.
 
When Nissan first got into the BEV business, there really wan't any guideposts for what worked and what didn't, and so they did the best that they could, and made a few mistakes. Back in the early 2000,s the corporate direction was that they were going to electrify their product lines over time. Getting as many BEVs into the hands of customers was the goal, and for that point in time it was the proper tactic. Without Nissan essentially creating the new BEV market, we would not be where we are today with BEV adoption.

Moving to the mid-2010's the BEV business got caught in the "volume is job 1" strategy, and given that the LEAF was already being sold at a loss, a bigger loss per vehicle was an acceptable strategy if it helped make the volume goals.

Fast forward to about 2 years ago, and new strategies emerged, and one of them was to abandon the "Race to the Bottom" as Nissan executives called it, and volume lost out to profitability. Now as we move to the second decade of the 21st century, the focus on profitability has taken has become the new focus, especially for BEVs. Every manufacturer is struggling, and volume competition is secondary.

Given the shrinking of the world-wide fleet, all manufacturers are going through exactly the same exercise. And yes, if you don't have the means to afford a $40-70K vehicle, then BEVs are not for you, at least not as a new purchase. The reality is Manufacturers are looking at selling fewer vehicles moving forward, and volume does not matter, only profitability. If you can't pay, you have no sway.

No manufacturer is really interested in selling a vehicle at a loss to someone that can't afford to pay what it costs to make. The previous pricing structures are really an aberration of the relaunch of the BEV of this decade. 2020 and beyond will be a "cash talks, freeloaders walk" decade.
 
The Leaf is hardly a discount car, but a discount car is exactly where I wish Nissan would go. The luxury EV market is getting awfully crowded - Tesla, Jaguar, Audi, Porche, and even Ford are competing for the small pool of buyers willing to spend over $50k on a car. Some of the Leaf's midrange competition (particularly the Bolt) are also becoming plentiful, though others (Hyundai / Kia products) are still hard to find. The real market opening, however, is in actual discount cars of which there are essentially none.

On the ICE side, in Canada Nissan offers the Micra at just over $10k. The base model is a stripped down car with manual crank windows and no air conditioning, but the price is still under $15k after adding all of the basic gadgets. With a smaller, lighter, cheaper, more efficient 50-60 kW electric motor and inverter and a 20 kWh battery pack, it should be possible to produce a small EV with range close to a 30kWh Leaf for under $20k.
 
What I seem to be reading here is that If Nissan goes in the direction of EV as a luxury item, then the Leaf-type of vehicle will be discontinued.

At that point, all the Leafs in the world (that are in the hands of owners) will become rare. Man, in a few short years, we may all be making a mad dash to scoop up all the old Leafs out there, and continue refurbishing them!!!
 
My read was that they will continue to sell the Leaf, at least in Europe, though here in the US and Canada was not clear. But I did get the feeling, and I hope I'm wrong, that it may not get updates and new tech. Those would go into the Ariya. But not getting upgrades in tech and range makes the vehicle less appealing, unless they dramatically cut the cost.

But my question is, how is it costing so much a few years from now to build these small crossovers and hatchbacks?

You can infer from the Tesla truck and from past news that TESLA is at or expects to be soon at $100 / Kwhr
There was an article a day or two ago about GM having their own giga factory and also being at $100 / KWhr.
I've also seen articles on VW expecting to be near or at $100.

That means that the battery pack in a standard leaf would cost $4k. Sure there are other parts, but that's no different than an ICE.
Just as broad napkin math, lets assume the rest of the car costs the same as the ICE version, with the additional 4k for the battery.
You can NOT tell me that all adds up to 37k to make a "profitable" Nissan Leaf (SV trim).
In fact some of the other components in an EV should cost less!
Less warranty work too, which costs the OEM.

Now if Nissan is stuck paying a lot more for their components that Tesla, GM and VW, who's fault is that?
As a consumer, I'll take my business to those other brands.
Same with Toyota, who seems reluctant to embrace EVs. Perhaps because right now it wouldn't make their shareholders profit.
But by the time Toyota decides to make the change, they may not be able to compete.
 
I've always considered the Leaf to be pretty comparable to the Nissan Versa(at least from the outside) with more features. The '19 Versa lists for $12,460 so add a few goodies and your up to what $15k?? add a $4k battery and your around $20k :)
Now maybe the Leaf has more than $2500 in goodies but still.....
Now I'm comparing the Versa to the gen 1 Leafs, not too familiar with the newer Leafs.
 
Jeff, the Versa and the LEAF are the same car. Both are built on the same assembly line and both are based on the Nissan B platform.

On how Nissan will address the low-end BEV space mowing forward, there are at least three options that they are investigating, one is a continuation of the LEAF as it exists today in decontented form like the S trim. This is like the Rouge Sport strategy.

The other is introducing their e-Power drivetrain in the US. e-Power is a serial hybrid powertrain with a small ICE driving an electric motor-generator with a small battery pack acting as a buffer. The ICE only drives the electric motor and is not connected to the drive wheels. This powertrain is available as a Note in Asia, is sub-$20K USD, and is quite popular. The Note platform is deemed too small for US tastes, so if it is launched in North America it will probably be on a smaller B platform derivative.

Filling the higher end BEV space for the Nissan brand will be a new BEV SUV about the size of the Rouge. Expect the launch of that in the second half of next year.

Infinti will move to an all BEV lineup staring late next year with a variety of luxury top hats for the new Nissan/Renault/Mitsubishi BEV platform that we have been seeing in a number of concept vehicles over the last year.

Moving forward none of the automakers really care about the consumer reaction about competition or taking their business elsewhere, in fact they welcome it, they know the market is shrinking because of social economic trends, so they are going to be focusing on profitability. They are adopting the Tesla sales model, here’s the price, so take it or leave it.
 
Jeff, the Versa and the LEAF are the same car. Both are built on the same assembly line and both are based on the Nissan B platform.


I saw a new post from OE, and thought to myself: "I suppose I'd better check to see what nonsense he's posting now." The above is that nonsense for today. The Leaf uses parts from the Versa and Rogue. It is not the "same car" as either.
 
Read your own link. You are passing on speculation that turned out not to be true. From that wikipedia link:

Nissan EV platform

A new electric vehicle platform, thought to be based on the B0 platform,[18] was revealed by Nissan in 2009, though Nissan's own documentation on the B0 platform does not mention the LEAF:


The Leaf has, in fact, its own platform listing on that page.


From the footnotes:

"Nissan 2012 Leaf - Nissan preview EV platform on Tiida prototype". GoAuto. 2009-07-28. "NISSAN Motor Co has previewed its dedicated electric vehicle (EV) platform on a Tiida-based prototype this week ahead of the all-new production vehicle’s unveiling at the opening of the Japanese manufacturer’s new global headquarters in Yokohama on August 2."
 
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