LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 17406
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Installing 4-prong charger on 3-wire 240V distribution

Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:46 pm

The Nissan EVSE is NOT smart - it pulls 27.5 amps always. So if the door opener doesn't use more than about 3 amps, you could be overloading the circuit but not tripping the breaker. A LAX reading of the electrical code might suggest that you can charge for up to three hours - and no more - on that setup, but it really would be much wiser to just charge at 24 amps (not volts) with an aftermarket EVSE.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jjeff
Posts: 2475
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Installing 4-prong charger on 3-wire 240V distribution

Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:22 am

Correct, no way to limit the charge current on a Leaf, it pulls what it wants, up to a maximum of 27.5a or whatever the maximum of your EVSE is, the OEM Leaf EVSE can pull up to 30a.
Unless something is done not to code, everything else in your garage should be off a 120v breaker and NOT shared with your dryer outlet but still 27.5a on a 30a circuit is asking for trouble, at least for charging for more than an hour or so. I'd suggest purchasing an adjustable EVSE or one maxing out at 24a. 16a L2 EVSEs can be had for under $200, some around $150 but personally if you had a 30a circuit I'd look for a 24a EVSE for quicker charges.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

wwhitney
Posts: 814
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2011
Location: Berkeley, CA

Re: Installing 4-prong charger on 3-wire 240V distribution

Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:07 am

jjeff wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:22 am
still 27.5a on a 30a circuit is asking for trouble, at least for charging for more than an hour or so.
So, there's two kinds of trouble that could occur:

1) The circuit has a marginal connection in it. When used for a dryer (~23A intermittently) the marginal connection never gets hot enough to cause a problem. But if used for the EVSE (27.5A continuously), the marginal connection will overheat and be a problem.

2) The circuit breaker may nuisance trip. This may occur every time after 2 hours of use, or it may occur rarely when the room temperature is higher than normal and many other loads supplied by the same panel are in use, or it may never occur.

The point of the "80%" rule is solely to avoid #2. That's it. The circuit breaker is the weak link in this regard, and every other part of a 30A circuit is rated for 30A continuously.

Cheers, Wayne
Last edited by wwhitney on Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Learjet
Posts: 192
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:04 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Mar 2020
Leaf Number: 309454
Location: Louisiana, USA

Re: Installing 4-prong charger on 3-wire 240V distribution

Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:00 am

please do it properly...not what you are trying to do and what you are being suggested here to do.

Run the proper circuit. :roll:
2019 Nissan Leaf SL Plus
Build Date 2/19...car sat new for 1 year until I purchased 3/20

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 17406
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Installing 4-prong charger on 3-wire 240V distribution

Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:07 pm

The point of the "80%" rule is solely to avoid #2. That's it. The circuit breaker is the weak link in this regard,, and every other part of a 30A circuit is rated for 30A continuously.
Given the additional possibility of a marginal connection overheating - especially in combination with the very real possibility of a defective breaker that won't trip - I think we should at least pretend that #1 is also included. I mentioned a three hour limit on charging just in case the OP plans to disregard our other advice.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

wwhitney
Posts: 814
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2011
Location: Berkeley, CA

Re: Installing 4-prong charger on 3-wire 240V distribution

Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:21 pm

Absolutely, #1 is a potential issue, that's why I mentioned it. The reopening OP did say "I had a dryer plug installed in my garage that has 240 30 amp on it," which sounds to me like a recent install; hopefully the installer knew what they were doing. I'm also not making any recommendation on what to do, just sharing my understanding of the issue of continuous loads and the NEC.

Cheers, Wayne

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15809
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Installing 4-prong charger on 3-wire 240V distribution

Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:13 am

l6sman wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:04 pm
I have a sort of similar question. I had a dryer plug installed in my garage that has 240 30 amp on it. I ordered a charger from SplitVolt that is only supposed to charge at 24v. It worked once but then messed up then next time. They're sending me another one. However, I ordered a 14-50 to 10-30 adapter plug from them to try and use with the Nissan charger that came with my 2020 Leaf. According to the Nissan manual, it charges at a continuous 30 amps. When I plugged in using the adapter it seems to work fine and my circuit breaker didn't trip when I turned on overhead lights or ran the garage door opener. Does the Nissan charger have built in intelligence to limit the amps it charges at? Also, I've heard of people limiting how high of amps their Leaf charges at. Can I do that on my 2020, i.e. limit it to lets 24 amps?

Thanks :)
First off; Don't use your setup, its dangerous. You can't run more than 24 "amps" on your dryer connection.

2nd off; I am hoping your testing the garage door opener and whatever else is simply ignorance as there can be NOTHING else sharing that circuit.

3rd off; I use my dryer plug on a splitter with the adapter as well and it works fine one at a time. I use a Clipper Creek 24 amp EVSE.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 25,047 mi, 92.12% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

l6sman
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Dec 2020

Re: Installing 4-prong charger on 3-wire 240V distribution

Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:25 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:13 am
l6sman wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:04 pm
I have a sort of similar question. I had a dryer plug installed in my garage that has 240 30 amp on it. I ordered a charger from SplitVolt that is only supposed to charge at 24v. It worked once but then messed up then next time. They're sending me another one. However, I ordered a 14-50 to 10-30 adapter plug from them to try and use with the Nissan charger that came with my 2020 Leaf. According to the Nissan manual, it charges at a continuous 30 amps. When I plugged in using the adapter it seems to work fine and my circuit breaker didn't trip when I turned on overhead lights or ran the garage door opener. Does the Nissan charger have built in intelligence to limit the amps it charges at? Also, I've heard of people limiting how high of amps their Leaf charges at. Can I do that on my 2020, i.e. limit it to lets 24 amps?

Thanks :)
First off; Don't use your setup, its dangerous. You can't run more than 24 "amps" on your dryer connection.

2nd off; I am hoping your testing the garage door opener and whatever else is simply ignorance as there can be NOTHING else sharing that circuit.

3rd off; I use my dryer plug on a splitter with the adapter as well and it works fine one at a time. I use a Clipper Creek 24 amp EVSE.
Well, I'm not using a dryer plug per se, I have a dedicated 30 amp circuit breaker and I installed a new dryer plug off of that. The only thing running on that circuit will be my charger. However, I only have 30 amps total going to my garage. When I set I tested the lights and garage door i was checking to see if they plus the Nissan charger were drawing more than 30 amps because I would assume that would trip my breaker but it didn't. That's why I was wondering if the Nissan charger has some intelligence in it so that it doesn't draw more than is available. The manual says it draws a continuous 30 amps. If that was the case then I would've thought that turning on lights or opening my garage door would've trip the circuit. The new SplitVolt charger only draws 24 amps so it should be fine. I am just wondering about the Nissan charger.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 3076
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Installing 4-prong charger on 3-wire 240V distribution

Fri Dec 25, 2020 4:45 pm

l6sman wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:25 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:13 am
l6sman wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:04 pm
I have a sort of similar question. I had a dryer plug installed in my garage that has 240 30 amp on it. I ordered a charger from SplitVolt that is only supposed to charge at 24v. It worked once but then messed up then next time. They're sending me another one. However, I ordered a 14-50 to 10-30 adapter plug from them to try and use with the Nissan charger that came with my 2020 Leaf. According to the Nissan manual, it charges at a continuous 30 amps. When I plugged in using the adapter it seems to work fine and my circuit breaker didn't trip when I turned on overhead lights or ran the garage door opener. Does the Nissan charger have built in intelligence to limit the amps it charges at? Also, I've heard of people limiting how high of amps their Leaf charges at. Can I do that on my 2020, i.e. limit it to lets 24 amps?

Thanks :)
First off; Don't use your setup, its dangerous. You can't run more than 24 "amps" on your dryer connection.

2nd off; I am hoping your testing the garage door opener and whatever else is simply ignorance as there can be NOTHING else sharing that circuit.

3rd off; I use my dryer plug on a splitter with the adapter as well and it works fine one at a time. I use a Clipper Creek 24 amp EVSE.
Well, I'm not using a dryer plug per se, I have a dedicated 30 amp circuit breaker and I installed a new dryer plug off of that. The only thing running on that circuit will be my charger. However, I only have 30 amps total going to my garage. When I set I tested the lights and garage door i was checking to see if they plus the Nissan charger were drawing more than 30 amps because I would assume that would trip my breaker but it didn't. That's why I was wondering if the Nissan charger has some intelligence in it so that it doesn't draw more than is available. The manual says it draws a continuous 30 amps. If that was the case then I would've thought that turning on lights or opening my garage door would've trip the circuit. The new SplitVolt charger only draws 24 amps so it should be fine. I am just wondering about the Nissan charger.
If the circuit to your garage is only sized for 30 amperes total, then there could be enough voltage drop to cause the Nissan EVSE to fail--this would explain why it worked once if the system voltage was a little higher. The Nissan EVSE will allow the car to pull up to 30 amperes continuous so it needs a 40 or 50 ampere circuit. Also, the Nissan unit will shut down with error lights if it determines the voltage is too low. The Nissan EVSE that came with my 2019 will charge the car fine at my house on nominal 240V, but will not charge the car at my workshop on nominal 208V (typically 212 or 213 volts). It appears to be ready to charge with the EVSE plugged in to the 14-50 receptacle and will appear to start charging when the J1772 connector is plugged in to the car, but will shut down as soon as the car starts drawing current (probably because the voltage drops below its allowable threshold). If you have a 30-ampere circuit, then the "SplitVolt" unit which is rated at 24 amperes should be OK to use.

Other posts in this thread imply that the maximum current the car will draw is 27.5 amperes, but that is not correct. My 2015 would draw 30 amperes when charging from a nominal 208V circuit (typically 212 or 213 volts). The current draw from a nominal 240V circuit would vary with voltage (lower current at higher voltage), but I never saw it above 27.5 because the voltage at my house never got low enough to have the current increase above that level. As an example, the last charge before trading in was 26.6 amperes at 243.3 volts. My 2019 draws a little more current than the 2015: 27.6 amperes at 244.2 volts, 27.0 amperes at 246.1 volts, 26.8 amperes at 250.1 volts, or 28.6 amperes at 236.3 volts. The 2019 will draw a little over 30 amperes when charging from a 208V nominal circuit if the EVSE pilot signal will allow. My Clipper Creek EVSE at my workshop garage allows 40 amperes and I saw 30.4 amperes at 214.3 volts the first time I charged there.
Last edited by GerryAZ on Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

Flyct
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:04 am
Delivery Date: 05 Dec 2019
Leaf Number: 310009
Location: Bradenton, Florida, US

Re: Installing 4-prong charger on 3-wire 240V distribution

Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:35 pm

l6sman wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:25 am

Well, I'm not using a dryer plug per se, I have a dedicated 30 amp circuit breaker and I installed a new dryer plug off of that. The only thing running on that circuit will be my charger. However, I only have 30 amps total going to my garage. When I set I tested the lights and garage door i was checking to see if they plus the Nissan charger were drawing more than 30 amps because I would assume that would trip my breaker but it didn't. That's why I was wondering if the Nissan charger has some intelligence in it so that it doesn't draw more than is available. The manual says it draws a continuous 30 amps. If that was the case then I would've thought that turning on lights or opening my garage door would've trip the circuit. The new SplitVolt charger only draws 24 amps so it should be fine. I am just wondering about the Nissan charger.
You either need to

1-install a 40a or 50a circuit with a 14-50R receptacle to safely use your 240v Nissan ESEV
or
2- buy a ESEV that is limited to 24 amps or less like a Clipper Creek LCS-30P 24 amp L2 ESEV https://store.clippercreek.com/lcs-30p-nema-14-30 or the SplitVolt 24A ESEV https://www.splitvolt.com/product/porta ... 30-24-amp/
2020 Leaf SL Plus (replaced totaled 2019:SL+)
2015 Lexus RX450h Hybrid SUV
2019 F-150 XLT Extended cab SOLD
2020 Ford F-350 Lariat Ultimate Crew Cab Short Bed Diesel- Tow vehicle
2017 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS 5th Wheel RV

Return to “New Members & Newbie Questions”