jbsocdelica
Gold Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 1:20 am
Delivery Date: 05 May 2016

EV Rebates for Used Leafs / affordability along with 62 kWh battery upgrade ($8800 sample)

Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:04 pm

Hi Folks;

I was thinking about relatively inexpensive upgrades costs for the Leaf and I organized my thinking along the following ideas:

1) Previous discussions here
2) Emerging costs saving ideas including rebates
3) Upgrade example
4) Categories of costs savings
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1) In another subforum here:

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=27600

I have found vigorous conversation on kWh and variations (intended or otherwise) (i.e. technical issues / nomenclature). Two outstanding figures in that forum are Daniel / Dala the Great (https://dalasevrepair.fi/) and Muxan (https://muxsan.com/English/index.html). I believe their work has helped fundamentally set the foundation for DYI upgrades and a growing cottage industry installers (ranging from mobile mechanics to full on EV battery replacement shops). Along those lines, as well, Evehanced (https://evsenhanced.com/services/hv-bat ... -upgrades/ ) has come out with some really cool tools to make battery pairing a snap, and in North America, EVRIDESLLC (https://evridesllc.com/) among others are also doing battery upgrades / enhancements on a professional level (with professional prices to boot).

Personally, in the other forum I referred to, I really loved learning about the namesakes behind the units and other aspects, very cool!). I think common to a number of sub forums a major purposes is to make this all doable, i.e. low / lower cost upgrades.

2) Maybe we can create a kind of an emerging / evolving database listing current / future (?) incentives within North America by state / province and utility so folks who want to go the route of purchasing an inexpensive used Leaf (i.e. $3k or less) can upgrade with these kinds of incentives.

It also means that even down the road for someone who is still holding on to their 24 kWh Leaf, by having that dynamic information readily attainable, we are encouraging / facilitating that kind of recycling / upgrading (and fun to boot)!

3) In my case for example in Southern California, I bought a 2011 6 bar Leaf last year for $3k and then added a 64 kWh battery upgrade.

After initial purchase, my costs were $7500 for a 62 kWh battery + $1300 installation for about $8800 (U.S.) or €7200 (Euro) before local incentives such as SCE in my case (as well as buy back for part of my old battery back) kicked in.

For me, that made the vehicle a really good investment for the next 10 years, 230+ mileage range for well under 11k (with my incentives). At the moment, that strikes it about $4k under just buying a used Bolt -- which means it has its own sweet spot, I think. (In Los Angeles, for example, a Bolt can be had for starting about $15k + 10% tax).

Some states / electric companies (i.e. CA / SCE) may provide rebates for used EVs, and that might help some folks reduce that cost even more. In CA, the the current round of SCE rebate, to my knowledge finished last year (2020).

https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng?gcli ... ZbEALw_wcB

https://greenlining.org/publications/20 ... ATEALw_wcB

https://cleanvehiclegrants.org/

https://www.electricdrive805.org/free-ev-ve-gratuito/

https://plugstar.zappyride.com/tools/incentives


Los Angeles County

https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/12312



Bay Area, California


https://www.baaqmd.gov/funding-and-ince ... nd-rebates

Burbank, California

https://www.burbankwaterandpower.com/co ... -ev-rebate

Pennsylvania

https://www.peninsulacleanenergy.com/dr ... delectric/

I also came across a sort of state listing which seems pretty promising for lots of EV resources, used and new
:

https://clippercreek.com/ev-incentives/

4) Again pieces of the the main idea are :

a) Making the Leaf super affordable by way of any mechanism (rebates, low battery exchanges / upgrades, purchasing)
b) Keeping an eye out on great battery deals for the 62 kWh or 40 kWh (my local installer gave me three sites at the time to look for purchasing. Then, I had the option of getting a 40 kWh battery for about $5500 (I'll have to check my notes), but I decided more range would better over the long term.

At the moment, http://www.advanceautosalvage.com/ is selling a 40 kWh for about $7k. They ship nationally.

And if you're really a go getter:

https://erepairables.com/salvage-cars-a ... issan/leaf


c) Giving folks the best strategies of when to buy a used one to take advantage of an 8 bar under warranty
d) Strategies for getting the 30 kwh battery upgraded for free
e) Engaging in preventative repair and cheap repair shops that are Leaf friendly
f) Understanding how to best sell the old pack to recoup some, if not all costs (or more!) of installation,
g) free / low cost charging (including cheap solar panel ideas) and
h) ? (anything along those lines to make the Leaf a budget friendly vehicle for many years to come)

So if you have an addons to this, I hope you'd be doing a service for a lot of folks who might not have known there were resources available for really low cost vehicle ownership over an extended period of time.

Aloha!
Last edited by jbsocdelica on Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:18 pm, edited 4 times in total.
02 Gem (curtis controller mod 45 mph)
03 Dynasty IT (mod 48 mph)
11 Leaf (battery replaced $1k compromise)
11 Leaf (62 kWh)
ICE: Delica, VW Bus, Ghia, Volvo122, 400E, AWD Axxess

alozzy
Posts: 2068
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Re: EV Rebates for Used Leafs / affordability along with 62 kWh battery upgrade ($8800 sample)

Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:11 pm

It would also be very useful if everyone can contribute URLs for 40 kWh and 60 kWh LEAF battery packs that have been salvaged. Location info would likewise be useful.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

SageBrush
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Location: NM

Re: EV Rebates for Used Leafs / affordability along with 62 kWh battery upgrade ($8800 sample)

Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:10 am

alozzy wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:11 pm
It would also be very useful if everyone can contribute URLs for 40 kWh and 60 kWh LEAF battery packs that have been salvaged. Location info would likewise be useful.
For the USA at least, I imagine close to 100% of totaled LEAFs go to auction. The auction yards are more than happy to notify you of upcoming auctions that meet your search criteria.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr @28k miles. 10/21: 53.4 Ahr @ 40k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

alozzy
Posts: 2068
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: EV Rebates for Used Leafs / affordability along with 62 kWh battery upgrade ($8800 sample)

Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:48 am

Thanks @SageBrush, I'm sure US residents will find that useful.

Unfortunately, in Vancouver (Canada) where I live, we have a crappy, province wide insurance system (ICBC) that nobody can opt out of - it's the only insurance option. They do private/closed auctions to registered/licensed "buyers" only (wreckers, dismantlers, recyclers) - not to the general public. The "buyers" then resell parts and such to the public, typically with very significant price gouging.

Also, there's no easy way to figure out where to buy salvaged LEAF battery packs in BC, other than to phone around and get lucky. Almost without exception, the local wreckers have terrible websites and either non-existent or completely out of date databases on their inventories too. The two times I was able to locate LEAF packs, one was a 24 kWh (not interested) and the other was a 30 kWh (OK, but not ideal) and both were outrageously priced.

I'm hoping that, post COVID, when the US-Canada border reopens, I'll be able to find a reasonably priced 40 kWh pack in Washington State somewhere...
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

alozzy
Posts: 2068
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: EV Rebates for Used Leafs / affordability along with 62 kWh battery upgrade ($8800 sample)

Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:58 am

For those in British Columbia, this article explains why there's such a shortage of used EV parts and battery packs in BC:

https://www.ara.bc.ca/wp-content/upload ... zation.pdf

This pie chart in particular explains a big part of the problem - out of province buyers (in this case, for Tesla parts - but the article mentions LEAF parts have a similar problem):

Image
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

jbsocdelica
Gold Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 1:20 am
Delivery Date: 05 May 2016

Re: EV Rebates for Used Leafs / affordability along with 62 kWh battery upgrade ($8800 sample)

Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:19 pm

Hmmmmm. I wonder if there is someway we could organize a system for getting batteries to private parties on both sides of the border.

Does anyone definitely know what is the GST on driving a battery across the border for example?

I think if we frame this as a North American sustainable eco effort, that helps out lower income folks for example, it could gain some teeth?

Or are ICBC restriction too tight about repurposing batteries?

Or?
02 Gem (curtis controller mod 45 mph)
03 Dynasty IT (mod 48 mph)
11 Leaf (battery replaced $1k compromise)
11 Leaf (62 kWh)
ICE: Delica, VW Bus, Ghia, Volvo122, 400E, AWD Axxess

alozzy
Posts: 2068
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: EV Rebates for Used Leafs / affordability along with 62 kWh battery upgrade ($8800 sample)

Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:25 pm

I think ICBC could care less and getting their attention would be next to impossible. Perhaps in the longer term, when the BC government is publicly shamed for a lack of policy around EV battery reuse and recycling. Government institutions generally move at glacier pace, unless the issue starts to jeopardize their reelection chances...

As I said above, my hope is pinned on finding a supplier and installer in Washington State, post COVID.

I would think that transporting a battery across the border would be a nightmare anyways, as I'm guessing it would be deemed dangerous goods by CBSA. Huge tarrifs are likely.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

SageBrush
Forum Supporter
Posts: 6584
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: EV Rebates for Used Leafs / affordability along with 62 kWh battery upgrade ($8800 sample)

Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:35 pm

alozzy wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:48 am
They do private/closed auctions to registered/licensed "buyers" only (wreckers, dismantlers, recyclers) - not to the general public.
How expensive is it to open the business 'Alozzy's EV Dismantlers' ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr @28k miles. 10/21: 53.4 Ahr @ 40k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
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Re: EV Rebates for Used Leafs / affordability along with 62 kWh battery upgrade ($8800 sample)

Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:48 pm

Motto: "You Bang Em and I'll Break Em".
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

rmay635703
Posts: 595
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: EV Rebates for Used Leafs / affordability along with 62 kWh battery upgrade ($8800 sample)

Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:23 pm

Car-part.com

One would hope spare car parts going over the border wouldn’t cause Canadian rage if proper papers exist

Expensive mechanisms exist to courier car parts from us to Canadia as well.

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