EV Rebates for Used Leafs / affordability along with 62 kWh battery upgrade ($8800 sample)

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jbsocdelica

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2016
Messages
74
Hi Folks;

I was thinking about relatively inexpensive upgrades costs for the Leaf and I organized my thinking along the following ideas:

1) Previous discussions here
2) Emerging costs saving ideas including rebates
3) Upgrade example
4) Categories of costs savings
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1) In another subforum here:

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=27600

I have found vigorous conversation on kWh and variations (intended or otherwise) (i.e. technical issues / nomenclature). Two outstanding figures in that forum are Daniel / Dala the Great (https://dalasevrepair.fi/) and Muxan (https://muxsan.com/English/index.html). I believe their work has helped fundamentally set the foundation for DYI upgrades and a growing cottage industry installers (ranging from mobile mechanics to full on EV battery replacement shops). Along those lines, as well, Evehanced (https://evsenhanced.com/services/hv-battery-swaps-and-upgrades/ ) has come out with some really cool tools to make battery pairing a snap, and in North America, EVRIDESLLC (https://evridesllc.com/) among others are also doing battery upgrades / enhancements on a professional level (with professional prices to boot).

Personally, in the other forum I referred to, I really loved learning about the namesakes behind the units and other aspects, very cool!). I think common to a number of sub forums a major purposes is to make this all doable, i.e. low / lower cost upgrades.

2) Maybe we can create a kind of an emerging / evolving database listing current / future (?) incentives within North America by state / province and utility so folks who want to go the route of purchasing an inexpensive used Leaf (i.e. $3k or less) can upgrade with these kinds of incentives.

It also means that even down the road for someone who is still holding on to their 24 kWh Leaf, by having that dynamic information readily attainable, we are encouraging / facilitating that kind of recycling / upgrading (and fun to boot)!

3) In my case for example in Southern California, I bought a 2011 6 bar Leaf last year for $3k and then added a 64 kWh battery upgrade.

After initial purchase, my costs were $7500 for a 62 kWh battery + $1300 installation for about $8800 (U.S.) or €7200 (Euro) before local incentives such as SCE in my case (as well as buy back for part of my old battery back) kicked in.

For me, that made the vehicle a really good investment for the next 10 years, 230+ mileage range for well under 11k (with my incentives). At the moment, that strikes it about $4k under just buying a used Bolt -- which means it has its own sweet spot, I think. (In Los Angeles, for example, a Bolt can be had for starting about $15k + 10% tax).

Some states / electric companies (i.e. CA / SCE) may provide rebates for used EVs, and that might help some folks reduce that cost even more. In CA, the the current round of SCE rebate, to my knowledge finished last year (2020).

https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng?gcli ... ZbEALw_wcB

https://greenlining.org/publications/20 ... ATEALw_wcB

https://cleanvehiclegrants.org/

https://www.electricdrive805.org/free-ev-ve-gratuito/

https://plugstar.zappyride.com/tools/incentives


Los Angeles County

https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/12312



Bay Area, California


https://www.baaqmd.gov/funding-and-incentives/residents/clean-cars-for-all/resources/other-clean-car-grants-and-rebates

Burbank, California

https://www.burbankwaterandpower.com/conservation/used-ev-rebate

Pennsylvania

https://www.peninsulacleanenergy.com/driveforwardelectric/

I also came across a sort of state listing which seems pretty promising for lots of EV resources, used and new
:

https://clippercreek.com/ev-incentives/

4) Again pieces of the the main idea are :

a) Making the Leaf super affordable by way of any mechanism (rebates, low battery exchanges / upgrades, purchasing)
b) Keeping an eye out on great battery deals for the 62 kWh or 40 kWh (my local installer gave me three sites at the time to look for purchasing. Then, I had the option of getting a 40 kWh battery for about $5500 (I'll have to check my notes), but I decided more range would better over the long term.

At the moment, http://www.advanceautosalvage.com/ is selling a 40 kWh for about $7k. They ship nationally.

And if you're really a go getter:

https://erepairables.com/salvage-cars-auction/nissan/leaf


c) Giving folks the best strategies of when to buy a used one to take advantage of an 8 bar under warranty
d) Strategies for getting the 30 kwh battery upgraded for free
e) Engaging in preventative repair and cheap repair shops that are Leaf friendly
f) Understanding how to best sell the old pack to recoup some, if not all costs (or more!) of installation,
g) free / low cost charging (including cheap solar panel ideas) and
h) ? (anything along those lines to make the Leaf a budget friendly vehicle for many years to come)

So if you have an addons to this, I hope you'd be doing a service for a lot of folks who might not have known there were resources available for really low cost vehicle ownership over an extended period of time.

Aloha!
 
It would also be very useful if everyone can contribute URLs for 40 kWh and 60 kWh LEAF battery packs that have been salvaged. Location info would likewise be useful.
 
alozzy said:
It would also be very useful if everyone can contribute URLs for 40 kWh and 60 kWh LEAF battery packs that have been salvaged. Location info would likewise be useful.
For the USA at least, I imagine close to 100% of totaled LEAFs go to auction. The auction yards are more than happy to notify you of upcoming auctions that meet your search criteria.
 
Thanks @SageBrush, I'm sure US residents will find that useful.

Unfortunately, in Vancouver (Canada) where I live, we have a crappy, province wide insurance system (ICBC) that nobody can opt out of - it's the only insurance option. They do private/closed auctions to registered/licensed "buyers" only (wreckers, dismantlers, recyclers) - not to the general public. The "buyers" then resell parts and such to the public, typically with very significant price gouging.

Also, there's no easy way to figure out where to buy salvaged LEAF battery packs in BC, other than to phone around and get lucky. Almost without exception, the local wreckers have terrible websites and either non-existent or completely out of date databases on their inventories too. The two times I was able to locate LEAF packs, one was a 24 kWh (not interested) and the other was a 30 kWh (OK, but not ideal) and both were outrageously priced.

I'm hoping that, post COVID, when the US-Canada border reopens, I'll be able to find a reasonably priced 40 kWh pack in Washington State somewhere...
 
For those in British Columbia, this article explains why there's such a shortage of used EV parts and battery packs in BC:

https://www.ara.bc.ca/wp-content/uploads/A-Report-on-Current-Trends-for-ICBC-Electric-Vehicle-Salvage-Sales-and-Parts-Utilization.pdf

This pie chart in particular explains a big part of the problem - out of province buyers (in this case, for Tesla parts - but the article mentions LEAF parts have a similar problem):

ICBC-Salvage-Tesla-Salvage-buyers-2019-and-2019-768x338.jpg
 
Hmmmmm. I wonder if there is someway we could organize a system for getting batteries to private parties on both sides of the border.

Does anyone definitely know what is the GST on driving a battery across the border for example?

I think if we frame this as a North American sustainable eco effort, that helps out lower income folks for example, it could gain some teeth?

Or are ICBC restriction too tight about repurposing batteries?

Or?
 
I think ICBC could care less and getting their attention would be next to impossible. Perhaps in the longer term, when the BC government is publicly shamed for a lack of policy around EV battery reuse and recycling. Government institutions generally move at glacier pace, unless the issue starts to jeopardize their reelection chances...

As I said above, my hope is pinned on finding a supplier and installer in Washington State, post COVID.

I would think that transporting a battery across the border would be a nightmare anyways, as I'm guessing it would be deemed dangerous goods by CBSA. Huge tarrifs are likely.
 
alozzy said:
They do private/closed auctions to registered/licensed "buyers" only (wreckers, dismantlers, recyclers) - not to the general public.
How expensive is it to open the business 'Alozzy's EV Dismantlers' ?
 
Car-part.com

One would hope spare car parts going over the border wouldn’t cause Canadian rage if proper papers exist

Expensive mechanisms exist to courier car parts from us to Canadia as well.
 
I'd say that just driving the car over the border, getting the work done and then driving it back would be the easiest approach.

Back in the day there was a business selling new Mexican made VW Beetles to people in the US. You drove your old decrepit Beetle over the border where the body pan, tags, title and anything with the serial number on it were transferred to a brand new Mexican built Beetle which was then driven back to the US. I don't know if it was technically 100% legal but it was done a lot. Just replacing a battery in a Leaf would be much easier.
 
SageBrush said:
alozzy said:
They do private/closed auctions to registered/licensed "buyers" only (wreckers, dismantlers, recyclers) - not to the general public.
How expensive is it to open the business 'Alozzy's EV Dismantlers' ?

LOL, believe or not, I did give it some thought, to the extent that I priced out commercial leases for garage space. With the state of innovation now; from people like Emile, Dala, and others; it's becoming much easier for a non genius to do battery swaps...

Tools, cables, and other devices from EVs Enhanced in NZ, the Muxsan CAN bridge, code enhancement and knowledge transfer from Dala and others - battery swaps should soon become a profitable business, once the supply chain for used battery packs reaches maturity.

However, for me right now, it comes back to the same problem...

It's hard enough to find one reasonably priced 40 kWh pack in Vancouver. I think I'd quickly have a long list of customers with no batteries to offer them. I have no burning desire to become the next Fenix :lol:
 
alozzy said:
I have no burning desire to become the next Fenix :lol:
Amen to that.

I wasn't thinking of a real, physical garage. Just the business registration
 
You know, you could use an installer like mine if you have a place to ship the battery to.

Essentially that person would fly out to any U.S. location and installs the battery that you've paid for.

Your trick in this case, would be find a friendly EV-er, maybe from the forum who will receive your $7k battery and let installer use driveway space for 1.5 days? Honestly, if California were nearer to you, you could use our driveway (seriously), it's large enough. (I might even throw in a surf lesson).... We totally want to support the EV community. You could have a fun multi day drive back; issue is getting down with limited range... (si?).

My installer charges between $1,000 to $1300 to do the labour and with that he includes the CANBUS. I think that's a smoking deal, and he would probably give you something for you old EV battery unless you dismantle the old battery before driving across, so you can use / sell the modules in Canada. Would probably pay for labour and then some.

Thoughts?

Aloha

and to this day I am so bummed that I never got the Mexican VW motor!
 
SageBrush said:
alozzy said:
I have no burning desire to become the next Fenix :lol:
Amen to that.

I wasn't thinking of a real, physical garage. Just the business registration

Ah, I see what you mean...

The problem is with the very narrow definitions that ICBC places on "buyers", who are licensed to participate in auctions.

One category is "Rebuilder/Dealer" - basically, already registered car dealerships. Substantial barrier to entry.

Another category is "Wrecker/Dismantlers", which requires you have a land use contract with a local municipality for the wrecking of automobiles. Would have to own/lease land intended for wrecking.

The last category is "Steel/Scrap Metal Recycler", who aren't permitted to resell parts - they are only allowed to sell the metal for scrap value.
 
alozzy said:
SageBrush said:
I wasn't thinking of a real, physical garage. Just the business registration
Ah, I see what you mean...
The problem is with the very narrow definitions that ICBC places on "buyers", who are licensed to participate in auctions.
Informative -- thanks.

I suppose the real barrier is only wanting to buy one pack. With larger scale it might be worth the effort to come to an understanding with someone who already has a license that is not being used for LEAF.
 
@SageBrush;

Excellent point as always from you.

Very well could be that there is a mutually beneficial 'understanding' that could be reached with someone.

Along those lines, I think I know a guy through my Delica connections in Vancouver that might play ball. This guy is really creative and a super nice guy and seems to know his way through local bureaucracy to keep it legit and forward moving.... He might want to grow his business in addition to serving the L300 and L400s. He's a big help to that community.

PM me for more information if wanted.

Aloha
 
Today's number's at some point and a lead food will drop those number's like Galileo tossing his cookies from the Tower of Pisa. Not pretty.

Aloha
 

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jbsocdelica said:
Today's number's at some point and a lead food will drop those number's like Galileo tossing his cookies from the Tower of Pisa. Not pretty.

Aloha

How did you get a 62kWh to fit a 2011?
 
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