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Re: Wholesale value of the 2013 Leaf @Auction-June '15

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:58 am
by SteveInSeattle
The low auction prices have resulted in much lower residuals on 2015 leases -- so leases now cost more than they did two years ago. I bought my most recent one but only because of discounts and rebates were substantial and I plan to keep this Leaf, so resale is less an issue. I also got 0% financing for 72 months.

Re: Wholesale value of the 2013 Leaf @Auction-June '15

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:39 pm
by TimLee
evnow wrote:My buyout price of 21k is a full 10k more than the auction price. Why do people still think financially it is better to buy than lease?
They are clueless.
I was clueless.

Re: Wholesale value of the 2013 Leaf @Auction-June '15

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:12 pm
by OrientExpress
TimLee wrote: They are clueless.
I was clueless.
For the former, No, they know exactly what they are doing, but for the latter that is exactly what they are counting on.

Re: Wholesale value of the 2013 Leaf @Auction-June '15

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:54 am
by cwerdna
FWIW, I might be buying a '13 SV w/premium package but no QC + LED package (fine by me) that was off lease for $10,500 + tax and title. Need to decide today. The used car dealer just got it at auction and he showed me his invoice. It showed he paid ~$9200 (or exactly?) + $355 auction fee. It only has 12K miles on it! Looked like the car was registered in Santa Clara, CA. Was leased and maintained at a Santa Clara dealer .

Title looks clean w/no accidents from Carfax and Autocheck. Wasn't a branded or salvage title either. I plugged in my OBD2 dongle w/Leaf Spy and confirmed the VIN and mileage. Hx was 88%, IIRC. Car was built 5/2013. Mine that was built a month later has Hx ~89%, IIRC. Still had all 12 capacity bars.

Only downsides are the exterior wasn't that well cared for w/a bunch of scratches on the doors and also the corner of the front bumper. Also, there are somehow either scratches on the speedometer lens or some defect/problem on the inside (back) of the lens. If it were not something I looked at a lot... It's dark grey, not my favorite color but not as bad as black, which is a no for me. And, it's missing a key fob.

Used car dealer said he got 3 of them @ auction today (errr... Wednesday). Mentioned to me auctions are every 2 weeks on Wednesday and he picks up a few each time.

edit: Update. I passed on the above Leaf. I was afraid I'd regret the purchase and think that dealer might be able to get my one more to my liking for about the same price. I can get the speedometer lens cover replaced but since I don't really like the color, repainting it wouldn't be cheap and not something I'd do. And, I figure I'd have to shell out $300 to get another fob and get car programmed to recognize it.

I spoke to the user car lot guy about the auctions. He says usually each time, about 80 Leafs are up for auction. IIRC, about 15 of them should be '13 SVs (or was it '13 SVs w/o QC port?) He'll receive a list of cars next Friday, a few days before the auction itself on a Wednesday (7/15). He said I shouldn't expect these Leafs to be in much better condition and (obviously), it's hit or miss. He did claim that there are a # of out of state dealers coming to buy and that the prices of used Leafs at auction has actually been going up a bit (not sure how much I believe that).

On the invoice he showed me, it had the name Manheim. Just for kicks, I found https://www.manheim.com/. On their login page is "Access to Manheim.com is limited to licensed dealers only. For information on sales open to the public, please visit our Public Auctions sale listing." The latter unfortunately doesn't lead to anything I'd be interested in around me.

I also recall the Leaf he had still had a sticker/decal on the windshield that said something like "Nissan Infiniti Remarketing".

Re: Wholesale value of the 2013 Leaf @Auction-June '15

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 6:04 am
by JeremyW
I wouldn't consider a leaf without QC. Sure you may not need it, but it's value is going to tank that much harder in the coming years because it doesn't have it. Don't know how long you intend to keep this one, but it is a small consideration.

I also like the LED headlights much more than the halogens, but that's more personal preference.

Re: Wholesale value of the 2013 Leaf @Auction-June '15

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:09 am
by cwerdna
JeremyW wrote:I wouldn't consider a leaf without QC. Sure you may not need it, but it's value is going to tank that much harder in the coming years because it doesn't have it. Don't know how long you intend to keep this one, but it is a small consideration.
Problem is one w/QC costs more and to me, it's not worth it. I've used my CHAdeMO inlet about ~16 times and none were really required. It was always on free stations, which there are few of left (and not many to begin with). Every paid CHAdeMO station here in Nor Cal is a ripoff. Almost all are Blink at $0.59/kwh or NRG eVgo (http://www.nrgevgo.com/san-francisco-bay-area/ w/crap billing, to boot).

CCGI is bleeding $ like crazy even at the exorbitant Blink fees so it seems there's really no $ to be made running a paid DC FC network. Thus, I'm not optimistic about the DC FC prices getting any better unless Nissan + other automakers decide to go to a free DC FCing model like w/Tesla Superchargers, which has obviously caused some other issues recently...

But yeah, the used car guy was also bit perplexed by why some people think they need it and thus are willing to (?)/want to pay more for it. Those people probably have no idea of the costs but "want" it, just in case.

In many cases, if the trip is far enough and there isn't reliable destination charging (which I'm going to be stopped at for hours), I'll be taking my ICEV. It's all about time, value, money for me.

Re: Wholesale value of the 2013 Leaf @Auction-June '15

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:07 pm
by dgpcolorado
evnow wrote:My buyout price of 21k is a full 10k more than the auction price. Why do people still think financially it is better to buy than lease?
With a lease that has terms that favorable (I presume that the high buyout price meant a low lease payment) that is a reasonable question to ask. But there are a few cases where buying makes sense. For example, those who drive a lot and will greatly exceed the mileage limit. Or, perhaps, those who plan to keep the car for at least seven to ten years (although buying used would seem to be a better deal).

Some downsides to leasing, as opposed to "buying and holding": in states with value-based registration fees, one pays a lot more for newer cars than older ones. Same with insurance rates for collision/comprehensive. In my state the very generous state tax credit is much lower for leased cars than purchased ones, although that is something of an outlier case. An obvious advantage of leasing is that one can upgrade to the latest and greatest range and technology. (But what about those for whom the present LEAF is adequate for one's needs? They do exist.)

In general, I agree that for most people leasing makes more sense than buying new. But at this point I think buying used makes more sense than either leasing or buying new.

Re: Wholesale value of the 2013 Leaf @Auction-June '15

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:22 pm
by evnow
Can't compare used to buying new. It would almost always cost more to buy from Macy's than the local thrift store.

Re: Wholesale value of the 2013 Leaf @Auction-June '15

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:12 pm
by dgpcolorado
evnow wrote:Can't compare used to buying new. It would almost always cost more to buy from Macy's than the local thrift store.
Of course you can. And the fact that it is usually cheaper is the whole point. The early adopters didn't have a used LEAF market to consider. Now that there is one it greatly increases options for driving electric at a reasonable cost.

Re: Wholesale value of the 2013 Leaf @Auction-June '15

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:57 am
by cwerdna
cwerdna wrote:
JeremyW wrote:I wouldn't consider a leaf without QC. Sure you may not need it, but it's value is going to tank that much harder in the coming years because it doesn't have it. Don't know how long you intend to keep this one, but it is a small consideration.
Problem is one w/QC costs more and to me, it's not worth it. I've used my CHAdeMO inlet about ~16 times and none were really required...
BTW, I finally got an answer from the used car dealer I've been working with on how much a '13 Leaf SV w/both premium and QC + LED package (like the one I'm leasing now) would be used. It'd probably be $1K to 1.5K more. No thanks.

It's not worth $1K to me, let alone $1.5K. I guess I'm taking a gamble, but I'm hoping that I don't see a delta greater than that when I try to sell later...