WetEV
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Re: 2018 - 2019 40KWH LEAF: Should You Buy or Lease?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:47 am

I went to Nissan's leasing page, and put in a 5 year loan and a 5 year lease.

The payments were higher with the lease. $667 per month to lease, and have nothing. Or $657 per month to own a car with 3 years of battery warranty left.

https://www.nissanusa.com/pe-nissan/lea ... LEAF/17419

Why would anyone ever take a 5 year lease?

Yes, I know that a business might prefer a lease for income tax reasons.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: 2018 - 2019 40KWH LEAF: Should You Buy or Lease?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:53 pm

Why would anyone ever take a 5 year lease?
Aside from a business write-off, they might need 120 miles of range, and hope they'd get it for 5 years. That would be better than buying it and getting stuck with a car they couldn't drive to work, but wasn't anywhere near a warranty pack replacement. Three year leases are usually better, though.
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WetEV
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Re: 2018 - 2019 40KWH LEAF: Should You Buy or Lease?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:52 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Why would anyone ever take a 5 year lease?
Aside from a business write-off, they might need 120 miles of range, and hope they'd get it for 5 years. That would be better than buying it and getting stuck with a car they couldn't drive to work, but wasn't anywhere near a warranty pack replacement. Three year leases are usually better, though.
Then why not buy the car? Payments are less, even if the car is worth nothing in 5 years. Risk is lower as well.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
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LeftieBiker
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Re: 2018 - 2019 40KWH LEAF: Should You Buy or Lease?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:32 pm

Then why not buy the car? Payments are less, even if the car is worth nothing in 5 years. Risk is lower as well.
Assuming your calculations are correct, that might work, but many people don't want to have to then sell it. Since 5 year leases are very rare, why not run the numbers for a three year lease?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
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WetEV
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Re: 2018 - 2019 40KWH LEAF: Should You Buy or Lease?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:24 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Then why not buy the car? Payments are less, even if the car is worth nothing in 5 years. Risk is lower as well.
Assuming your calculations are correct, that might work, but many people don't want to have to then sell it. Since 5 year leases are very rare, why not run the numbers for a three year lease?
Not my calculations. Nissan's calculations.

https://www.nissanusa.com/pe-nissan/lea ... LEAF/17419

Set the car to "2019 Leaf SV PLUS 62 kWh"

Set the lease term and loan term to 60 months.

Oh, and not sell the car in 5 years. Comparing 5 year leasing with "take my car please" at 5 years as soon as the loan is paid off.

https://help.npr.org/customer/en/portal ... -donation-

In reality, of course, a 5 year old LEAF with a 60kWh battery, might be down a capacity bar, would be worth far more than $0. Would be very usable past when the warranty ran out at 8 years/100,000 miles.


Why not compare shorter leases to a 5 year ownership? Sure.

5 year loan vs a 2 year lease and a 3 year lease. 5 years driving. Scrap the car after 5 years, return the leased cars at end of term.

5 year loan is $657 / month. A two year lease is $991 / month, a three year lease is $801 / month. Average cost of leases is $ 877 per month.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
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LeftieBiker
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Re: 2018 - 2019 40KWH LEAF: Should You Buy or Lease?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:42 pm

The site lease calculator is usually higher than what you get as an actual lease. It also changes monthly.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

WetEV
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Re: 2018 - 2019 40KWH LEAF: Should You Buy or Lease?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:26 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:The site lease calculator is usually higher than what you get as an actual lease. It also changes monthly.
MSRP is usually higher than you can buy the car for. The price you can buy the car for mostly changes monthly. This is why the actual leases are lower, because the capitalized amount is lower.

Yes, if the car is for business use a lease can be better. But otherwise?

Plan on range based on warranty replacement level battery.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

LeftieBiker
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Re: 2018 - 2019 40KWH LEAF: Should You Buy or Lease?

Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:13 pm

How about you just take the last word?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
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Re: 2018 - 2019 40KWH LEAF: Should You Buy or Lease?

Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:44 am

Bump. The first post is the one to read for help deciding between leasing and buying. The subsequent pages are discussions and arguments of and about it.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
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Re: 2018 - 2019 40KWH LEAF: Should You Buy or Lease?

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:25 am

WetEV wrote: So what is the top Telsa range? 289 miles, yes?
No
Tesla loses range with cold weather and with time/miles, just like any other EV or ICE.
No. Battery degradation is massively improved compared to say, the LEAF.
Need a reserve, getting home on turtle isn't wise, fun or sustainable. Do the math. Say 30% range loss for weather (and that can be too low, some places) and 10% capacity loss, and a 10% reserve.
The Tesla Model 3 LR has a new battery range of 325 EPA miles. I agree with using 10% reserve, 10% degradation long-term, and 30% for poor winter conditions so that works out to 0.9*0.9*0.7 = 0.567 for long term, 4 season use. Call it 185 miles.

I would also be hesitant to consider an EV for a sales job because there is too much uncertainty but a blanket statement that an EV like my Model 3 is not up to a ~ daily 200 mile commuting gig is a YMMV. I say this for two reasons:
1. Most days of the year the car handles the task with aplomb
2. Destination charging solves this easily
3. If destination charging is not accessible and charging is needed, a well placed, 250 kW Supercharger adds a couple of minutes to those days.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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