martinh3
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:16 pm

used leaf comparison

Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:15 am

In the market for a used leaf, and wanted some opinions.
First let me say that I know that knowing the actual battery capacity ( e.g. using leafspy ) is recommended for used leafs, but I don't have that information at this time, so let's assume the capacity bars aren't lying, and they're at least somewhat reliably showing the expected capacity range.

Also, I need the car to make it to work ( worst case 30 miles ) , where they do have charging stations.
Once the pandemic is over, I should be going back to my normal office ( 10 miles ).
So, I'd like these cars to generally give me a range of about 40 or 50 miles of range with an 80% charge on most of the winter days.

I live in Northern Virginia - relatively hot summers, but worst case it can dip into the 'teens on a cold winter morning ( rarely ).
( looked it up , and July has historical avg of 88 degrees F , January has historical average of 44 degrees F )
I consider myself a conservative driver - no quick accelerations, coasting to stops when possible, limiting AC even on the hottest days.

3 cars:
#1. 2016 SV (30 kwh) with 11 bars , 33k miles for $13K
#2. 2015 SV with 12 bars , 16k miles , $12k --> test drove this one
#3. 2013 SV with 11 bars , 21k miles , $9k ( let's assume it's got a manufacture date after April 2013 )

From what I understand, (assuming the bars are accurate) , cars #1 and #2 should have about the same range ( I'm guessing around 70 miles on a full charge , worst case ), and car #3 should make it over 50 miles on a full charge.

But, I generally want to be nice to the battery , and keep between 2 and 10 bars as much as possible.

First question : Could I rely on any of these cars to give me at least 40-50 miles of range for a few years, year-round ( with maybe a few exceptional winter days ) , and also staying between 2 and 10 bars most of the time?

If so, then :

Is it advisable to go with the cheapest option ( #3) ?
Does 21k miles for the 2013 sound like it's been sitting around idle for too long over the course of it's life?
The pic on the dealer site shows range of 43 miles with 7 bars.

If I can't rely on #3 to give me a consistent range of > 40 miles in the winter, which looks to be the better value - #1 or #2 ?

I do like the fact that #1 (2016 / 30kwh) has a few more years left on the battery capacity warranty.
But, I understand that #2 (2015 / 24kwh) might just have a more durable battery pack, able to retain capacity better over time.

Thank you for reading - appreciate any feedback.

( Cautiously optimistic that an EV is right for me !!!! )

LeftieBiker
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Re: used leaf comparison

Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:54 am

The 30kwh Leaf is very likely to have the most range. It also has the best battery warranty. All of the cars are ok, and would likely all meet your range needs - except that maybe in 16F weather the 2013 could fail that test in a couple of years, and the 2015 a couple of years after that. The 2015 has the best battery, but that doesn't overcome the capacity and warranty advantages of the 2016. I assume that you are aware of the BMS update issue with that car: you need to make sure that it either never had the BMS update, or had it long enough ago (6 months or more) that the capacity bar reading is accurate.
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coleafrado
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:58 pm

Re: used leaf comparison

Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:01 pm

The 2013 should not be 9k especially with only 11 bars.

If you're willing to spend 13k on a 2016 with under 100 miles of range, why not spend 14-15k on a Bolt with over 200 miles of range and a battery that won't toast itself? There are an absolute ton of 2017 Bolt EVs coming off lease, I count three under $15k right here: https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventory ... tity=d2397

To be fair, those Bolts must be out of their 8y/100k mile battery warranty by now.
Last edited by coleafrado on Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

cwerdna
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: used leaf comparison

Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:13 pm

coleafrado wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:01 pm
The 2013 should not be 9k especially with only 9 bars.
Huh? I thought he said 11 bars. Still seems overpriced though.

I'm unclear which packages it has, if any. Even with both packages (LED headlights + quick charge inlet AND premium), it's still too high for an 11 bar '13.

'19 Bolt Premier
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'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

coleafrado
Posts: 291
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Re: used leaf comparison

Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:24 pm

cwerdna wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:13 pm
coleafrado wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:01 pm
The 2013 should not be 9k especially with only 9 bars.
Huh? I thought he said 11 bars. Still seems overpriced though.

I'm unclear which packages it has, if any. Even with both packages (LED headlights + quick charge inlet AND premium), it's still too high for an 11 bar '13.
Just a typo.

But on a different note... seeing cars with 60 kWh of battery, ready to buy, for equal or less than the cost of a Muxsan or Fenix 62 kWh upgrade, let alone the cost of the original car, really kills the economic argument that we should be upgrading batteries.

It really solidifies the argument, for me, that old EVs like the Leaf should just be used as golf carts or hacking platforms. Acting like it's economically reasonable to keep them on the road when there are cheaper, higher quality, more liquid options available is just ridiculous. Unless there's some other value add, like saving on property/sales taxes, upgrades really strike me as an "environmentally friendly" vanity project

gncndad
Posts: 284
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Location: Ft. Worth, TX

Re: used leaf comparison

Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:59 am

I know No. Va is an expensive area, but IMHO, all of those prices seem high, unless all of these cars are mint.
2015 LeafS
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DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2097
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: used leaf comparison

Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:36 am

Agreed, that those prices seem high.

The local dealer hermd a 12 bar early 2015 SV with 50k miles here for 9.5k. Admittedly it was an early 2015, but i Leafspy verified it was 12 bars. (88%) the prices you quoted felt a little high by comparison.

I agree with lefty that the 2016 has a better warranty remaining on the battery. Either the 2015 or 2016 will likely make the 50 miles but you will likely want the comfort of being fully charged in winter, rather than the 80%. Is a used 2018 too pricey?
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
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martinh3
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:16 pm

Re: used leaf comparison

Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:22 am

Thanks!
Regarding prices - #1 was on carvana (gone now) , and #2 and #3 are currently at the dealer.

It seems to me that used leaf's aren't that common in this area ?!?!
A search on Craigslist for northern virginia comes up with 3 total, latest year of 2013 for $8k but no pic of the battery capacity.

So, for prices, I only have online dealers like carvana and the local nissan dealerships ( and only of one those seem to have any stock of used leafs ) to compare, and yes, I know that prices probably depend on region, with Northern Virginia having a pretty high cost of living relatively.

coleafrado, Bolt's are more expensive (I'm trying to stay around $12k) Don't want to spend more $$ for range that I don't even need - that's what our second vehicle is for.
And, the three bolts that are under $15k on that link also each have > 100k miles. I want to stay away from those.
Regardless, I'm not on this forum to talk Bolt's. I'm here because the leaf is the cheapest EV to get me to/from work.

I also checked cargurus for leafs near 22311. A few options, but all seem to be right around the same price as #1,#2,#3 above.
Also many of the results are just carvana cars.

DougWantsALeaf, I think a 2018 is not an option at this point - want to stay at or below about $12k, but I'll keep an eye out !

I'm in no rush, so maybe I'll just hold out for another 2016/2017 to show up on my radar ( keeping in mind the BSM question - thanks LeftieBiker ! )

BillHolz
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:32 am
Delivery Date: 07 May 2016
Leaf Number: 322345
Location: Norfolk, VA

Re: used leaf comparison

Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:23 am

You may want to expand your search area. I bought my Leaf from your area (Passport Nissan in Alexandria) and hauled it home on a trailer. The following CarGurus with a 500 mile radius search found many options in your price range. I set it to 2015 and later because the 2015 has the best 24KWH battery and the 2016 and later have the best warranty.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventory ... ity=c24478
2015 SV no QC
Lost 1st bar Oct 2019 44K miles

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Stanton
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Re: used leaf comparison

Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:29 am

coleafrado wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:24 pm
But on a different note... seeing cars with 60 kWh of battery, ready to buy, for equal or less than the cost of a Muxsan or Fenix 62 kWh upgrade, let alone the cost of the original car, really kills the economic argument that we should be upgrading batteries.
This isn't so off-topic that I'll ask: what am I missing here?
Either there are some really cheap 60 kWh cars out there I don't know about...or these battery swap/upgrades cost way more than I thought.
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