alozzy
Posts: 1737
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: 2021 Nissan Leaf?

Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:54 am

I should have added one other proviso that's unique to EV purchases...

A lease is a good deal if you can't afford payments for a new EV purchase yet, by leasing, you would save over $200 per month on "fuel" and maintenance cost savings (ie $250 monthly on gas and maintenance, dropping to $50 monthly on electricity to charge an EV).

There a lot of people in that situation and I wish more people realized it and switched to EVs for that one reason. Once they lease their first EV, they'll never go back to an ICE...

Buying a used EV is still a better deal though 😜
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

Flyct
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:04 am
Delivery Date: 05 Dec 2019
Leaf Number: 310009
Location: Bradenton, Florida, US

Re: 2021 Nissan Leaf?

Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:45 am

alozzy wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:54 am
I should have added one other proviso that's unique to EV purchases...

A lease is a good deal if you can't afford payments for a new EV purchase yet, by leasing, you would save over $200 per month on "fuel" and maintenance cost savings (ie $250 monthly on gas and maintenance, dropping to $50 monthly on electricity to charge an EV).

There a lot of people in that situation and I wish more people realized it and switched to EVs for that one reason. Once they lease their first EV, they'll never go back to an ICE...

Buying a used EV is still a better deal though 😜
I found that with only federal tax credit factored in buying new is a better deal than buying 1-2 year old used. I’m on my 4th new leaf. I’m a cash buyer so that makes a difference. As a cash buyer I negotiate “Out the Door price” rather than how much a month.

My 18 month old (paid for) 2019 SL Plus was just totaled last month. After negotiating, I purchased a new freshly manufactured 2020 SL Plus replacement for $6,000 more than insurance payout. Then I get a $7,500 tax credit so I’m $1,500 in my pocket ahead.

The SL Plus serves our primary mission perfectly. We routinely travel 120 miles between 2 houses and I arrive with 90 miles of range remaining. The remote cabin is 30 miles from town for grocery runs. @ 2.5 cents/mile to feed it I smile every day.

I would not have purchased a new Leaf had it not been for the tax credit. That’s one of the reasons why I’m not driving a Tesla. No tax credit on a Tesla.
2020 Leaf SL Plus (replaced totaled 2019:SL+)
2015 Lexus RX450h Hybrid SUV
2019 F-150 XLT Extended cab
2020 Ford F-350 Lariat Ultimate Crew Cab Short Bed Diesel- Tow vehicle
2017 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS 5th Wheel RV

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2360
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: 2021 Nissan Leaf?

Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:00 pm

Last year (2019), the tax credits and discounts put a 10K divide between the SR+ and Plus SV/SL. This year with the deep discounts on the Leaf, its quickly growing to close to 15K or more. Bolts are as heavily discounted, but lack the tax credit.

Thats a hard gap to look past.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

SageBrush
Posts: 5612
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2021 Nissan Leaf?

Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:26 pm

alozzy wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:33 am
A 5 year (60 month) car loan on a $15000 purchase, with $3000 down, would cost $216 per month (assuming 3% rate). At the end of that 5 years, the car would likely still be worth $10000.
Are you saying 33% depreciation after 5 years ? That would be exceptional. 2/3 depreciation sounds closer to the mark to me.

For one contrary example, I bought my 30 month old LEAF for $8,300. My somewhat WAG is that it sold for ~ $30k when new, and then was eligible for a $7,500 federal tax credit. So even if you figure that the manufacturer took the entire tax credit, depreciation was
1 - 8300/22,500 = 63%

Leasing has a (relatively) good name in the LEAF world because Nissan has historically periodically dumped cars on the US market via lease deals to make sales quotas, and their loss has been a deal for consumers. That aberration (in the sense that manufacturers make product to profit) aside, leases are expected to be more expensive to the consumer than buying new for two basic reasons:

Depreciation is highest in the first 3 years of a car's life, exactly the period when leases run their course. People who take on leases are driving around in new-ish cars, and they pay for the privilege.
Second, insurance costs are higher, due to the higher value of the car. Once people are comfortable with the car value to self-insure then insurance costs drop dramatically. That never happens for people who lease, but it can happen for people who buy used or buy new and keep the car long term.

Once again using my LEAF as an example, we pay ~ $25 a month for good liability insurance but self-insure comp and collision.

Summing up, our LEAF has depreciated ~$2,000 - $3,000 during the 48 months we have owned it from age 2 1/2 years to 6 1/2 years, which works out to ~ $42 - $62 a month. After adding in insurance it has cost us somewhere in the range of $67 - $87 a month (not including O+M.)
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Triggerhappy007
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:08 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Jan 2019

Re: 2021 Nissan Leaf?

Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:23 pm

I think he was comparing a new 2020 Leaf to a used 2018 Leaf that cost $15,000. That's what it sounds like from his last paragraph.
2020 Leaf Plus SV Tech & All Weather
2019 Leaf SL - traded in
2020 Pacifica Hybrid Limited AST

alozzy
Posts: 1737
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: 2021 Nissan Leaf?

Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:54 pm

Triggerhappy007 wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:23 pm
I think he was comparing a new 2020 Leaf to a used 2018 Leaf that cost $15,000. That's what it sounds like from his last paragraph.
Exactly
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2360
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: 2021 Nissan Leaf?

Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:21 pm

21 Leaf getting a small battery upgrade to 64kWh?

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/best ... -cars-2021
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

SageBrush
Posts: 5612
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2021 Nissan Leaf?

Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:38 pm

alozzy wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:33 am
A 2018 LEAF is almost identical to a new 2020 LEAF with a 40 kWh pack, so you end up paying a premium for a car that's no better.
I reread your post and I follow your argument now. I have two comments:

1, your assumption that the 8 y/o LEAF will be worth $10k is far from a given
2, the newer car has 2 - 3 years less battery degradation throughout your ownership period. Particularly where the LEAF is concerned that should not be ignored
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2360
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: 2021 Nissan Leaf?

Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:44 pm

The 2020 has better safety equipment.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 16161
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2021 Nissan Leaf?

Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:24 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:44 pm
The 2020 has better safety equipment.
I moved the SV+ tonight while clearing snow, and noticed that when it detects an obstacle behind it while backing up, it does several things: it sounds a ship-horn-like early warning, it starts the pre-autobraking sequence, and it shows you, with a highlighted area on the Around View, where the obstacle is located.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Return to “Buying / Leasing / Dealerships”