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evnow
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Posts: 11480
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Is there something wrong with Leaf lease numbers ?

Sun May 23, 2010 4:27 pm

Let us look at the disclaimer.

Initial payment = 1,999 - 349=1,650

Adjusted Net capitalized cost : of $24,441 includes $7,500 manufacturer incentive for federal tax credit available to NILT by law, and $595 non-refundable acquisition fee

MSRP : Based upon $32,780 MSRP

Destination Charge : $820

The problem is, they don't add up. Net Capitalized Cost should be = MSRP + Dest Charge + Acq Fee - Tax credit - Downpayment
= 32,780+820+595-7,500-1,650
= 25,045.

But the Net Capitalized Cost is given as 24,441 !

Either NCC is wrong, or Destination charge is wrong. According to my calculations, if NCC is right, Destination Charge + acquisition fee = $820.

Can anyone straighten this out ?

OK solved : Acquisition fee shouldn't be included. SL is still different by 100 ...

Image
$349 a month2 – 36 month lease
($1,999 initial customer payment)
Excludes tax, title and license. Initially available through online reservation process. Orders through dealers commencing in August (in limited areas) and sales by dealer commences in December 2010. LEASE payment of $349/mo. is an example of offer if vehicle were sold in April 2010. The actual lease offer for NMAC (or "NILT") will be announced in December 2010 when sales commence. Subject to change. Limited quantities available in select markets and states through online reservation system. Increased availability in Spring 2011with full market rollout through 2012. At start of sale, one order per household address until availability increases. Taxpayer must incur federal tax liability to receive full benefits. Consult your tax professional.

2 Estimated monthly payment based on proposed offer subject to change at start of sale. Estimates include assumed residual, money factor, and acquisition fee amounts. Excludes taxes, title, and license. $1,999 initial payment required at consummation (includes $1,650 down payment and $349 first month payment). 2011 LEAF SV subject to availability to well qualified lessees through Nissan-Infiniti LT ("NILT"). Subject to credit approval. Based upon $32,780 MSRP plus $820 destination charge. Adjusted Net capitalized cost of $24,441 includes $7,500 manufacturer incentive for federal tax credit available to NILT by law, and $595 non-refundable acquisition fee. Dealer contribution may affect actual price set by dealer. Monthly payments total $12,564. Lessee is responsible for maintenance and repair. Lease payment excludes the cost of the EVSE/charging dock charging equipment. Security deposit not required. Disposition fee due at termination of lease term. See participating dealer for details. Finalized lease terms available to be set upon start of sale.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

Vlad92
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:11 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: Nebraska

Re: Is there something wrong with Leaf lease numbers ?

Sun May 23, 2010 6:17 pm

Could these numbers assume a negotiated purchase price of $604 under MSRP? It does talk about "Dealer contribution" in the disclaimer. Would be nice!

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garygid
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Posts: 12469
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:10 am
Delivery Date: 29 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000855
Location: Laguna Hills, Orange Co, CA

Re: Is there something wrong with Leaf lease numbers ?

Sun May 23, 2010 6:26 pm

Why do you add 829 instead of 820?
Using 820, the difference is $595, quite close to one of the other numbers, right?
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evnow
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Posts: 11480
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Is there something wrong with Leaf lease numbers ?

Sun May 23, 2010 7:28 pm

garygid wrote:Why do you add 829 instead of 820?
Using 820, the difference is $595, quite close to one of the other numbers, right?
Thats just a typo. Other numbers don't change (see the excel above).
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

User avatar
evnow
Moderator
Posts: 11480
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Is there something wrong with Leaf lease numbers ?

Sun May 23, 2010 7:33 pm

Vlad92 wrote:Could these numbers assume a negotiated purchase price of $604 under MSRP? It does talk about "Dealer contribution" in the disclaimer. Would be nice!
I think the destination charge at $820 is too high.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

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jhm614
Posts: 920
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:48 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000493
Location: Arlington, TX

Re: Is there something wrong with Leaf lease numbers ?

Sun May 23, 2010 7:36 pm

Hmm... that would me think that the Acq fee isn't rolled into the lease... meaning that it would have to be pre-paid along with $1999 initial payment. That makes the numbers match the advertisement, at least.
2011 Brilliant Silver SL - 110,000 gasoline free miles so far.
4BL: 06/29/13 @ 27 months, 43,520 miles, 42.56 Ahr. New 12 bar battery: 09/09/13
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evnow
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Posts: 11480
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Is there something wrong with Leaf lease numbers ?

Sun May 23, 2010 7:40 pm

jhm614 wrote:Hmm... that would me think that the Acq fee isn't rolled into the lease... meaning that it would have to be pre-paid along with $1999 initial payment. That makes the numbers match the advertisement, at least.
I was considering that - but look at the language in the disclaimer.
Adjusted Net capitalized cost of $24,441 includes $7,500 manufacturer incentive for federal tax credit available to NILT by law, and $595 non-refundable acquisition fee.
Someone with experience in this might know. I've never leased till now ...
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

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planet4ever
Posts: 4674
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: Is there something wrong with Leaf lease numbers ?

Sun May 23, 2010 9:37 pm

evnow wrote:
jhm614 wrote:Hmm... that would me think that the Acq fee isn't rolled into the lease... meaning that it would have to be pre-paid along with $1999 initial payment. That makes the numbers match the advertisement, at least.
I was considering that - but look at the language in the disclaimer.
Adjusted Net capitalized cost of $24,441 includes $7,500 manufacturer incentive for federal tax credit available to NILT by law, and $595 non-refundable acquisition fee.
Someone with experience in this might know. I've never leased till now ...
I don't have experience in this either, but my interpretation when I originally saw it a week ago was the same as jhm614's. I thought they were saying "Adjusted Net assumes we will receive the $7500 from the government at some point in the future and that we have already received the $595 from the customer." In other words, that as customers we have to put up the $595 when we commit to the lease, then the $1999 + tax and license when we sign the final papers and get the car.

Several things don't look right to me in your numbers. A residual percentage of 61% seems very high, but then you calculated it on "effective price". Isn't that typically in the low fifties, but calculated on MSRP? Because of that, you ended up with a lower residual value than I expected, and hence a considerably higher monthly depreciation. It looks like you tried to compensate for that with an unusually low money factor, but you still didn't end up with the right base payment. Here are the numbers I was estimating for the SV model:

32,780 - Sticker price
53% ---- Residual
17,373 - Residual value
24,441 - Net capitalized cost
=7,068 - Depreciation
196.32 - Monthly depreciation payment
8.75% -- Interest rate
152.45 - Money factor payment
--------
348.77 - Base lease payment before tax
349 - - - Advertised payment

I'll admit that I'm probably a ways off myself, since if I apply those same residual and interest percentages to the SL I end up with only $370.69 instead of $379. (I hadn't tried that until just now -- back to the drawing board.)
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

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planet4ever
Posts: 4674
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: Is there something wrong with Leaf lease numbers ?

Sun May 23, 2010 10:05 pm

planet4ever wrote:I'll admit that I'm probably a ways off myself, since if I apply those same residual and interest percentages to the SL I end up with only $370.69 instead of $379. (I hadn't tried that until just now -- back to the drawing board.)
OK, I give up. Surely the money factor would be the same for both models. If so, either my formulas are bad or else the residual percentage is different between the two. I suspect strongly that it must be my formulas.

Well, I guess there is one other possibility. Nissan might have a numerical error somewhere in its fine print. ... Nah ... the lawyers would never let something like that get out.
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

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evnow
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Posts: 11480
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Is there something wrong with Leaf lease numbers ?

Sun May 23, 2010 10:10 pm

planet4ever wrote: I thought they were saying "Adjusted Net assumes we will receive the $7500 from the government at some point in the future and that we have already received the $595 from the customer." In other words, that as customers we have to put up the $595 when we commit to the lease, then the $1999 + tax and license when we sign the final papers and get the car.
That is probably what it is. The lease is looking increasingly not so good :cry:
Several things don't look right to me in your numbers. A residual percentage of 61% seems very high, but then you calculated it on "effective price". Isn't that typically in the low fifties, but calculated on MSRP? Because of that, you ended up with a lower residual value than I expected, and hence a considerably higher monthly depreciation.
I was just going by a rumored residual of 16k.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

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