Page 8 of 45

Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:09 am
by Ingineer
gaswalla wrote:Not sure where that rumor of a $5k battery came from, but it certainly is not true.
It's not a rumor, I have direct knowledge it's accurate. The price for a complete pack (dealer's MSRP) is currently around $5000. I expect it to cost less when they are rolling out of Smyrna.

-Phil

Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:59 am
by KayserNissan
I am not a tech, have not been to any of the real trainings on how the battery pack is put together, but in the sales end of the training they tell us that the battery pack is actually 48 individual 4 module batteries so essentially if you have some sort of a tester you can tell which are the weakest/deadest in the group and just replace those instead of the entire pack.

That was one of the big things that I took away from the online courses on the LEAF because that was one of the biggest reasons I hated the Prius, that thing goes you are replacing the entire thing, the LEAF in theory should be able to find the bad one and replace it.


Could be horribly wrong though ;) might be impossible to separate the battery pack and find the dead/bad ones.

Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:11 am
by OrientExpress
Like a replacement engine for an ICE car, the replacement cost of a complete battery pack is probably not relevant to figuring TCO, except as an upper worst case margin.

For example, an engine replacement (which is remanufactured) for my 911 is about 15K + core. But if something goes wrong with the engine, chances are that the subassembly will be replaced and not the entire engine.

So it will be for replacement battery packs for EVs such as the LEAF. If there is an entire battery pack offered up as a replacement, it will most certainly not be new (or virgin), but rather remanufactured, with all of its components brought up to current standards. And over the life of the vehicle, if the battery pack needs maintenance or repair, it will be repaired at the sub-assembly level. So a pack will have only the faulty cells or components replaced, and only after some threshold would the entire pack be replaced with another one. The old pack core, would then be remanufactured, and used on another vehicle. The recycling and remanufacturing of the core pack keeps the actual cost of repair or replacement as economical as possible. I would imagine that Phil's $5K quote includes a core exchange, and that it is not a new pack but a remanufactured one.

From what I can gather about replacement Pack costs, they are quite in line with other major assembly replacement costs for conventional automobiles. And given that the pack is quite modular, they will probably be less.

Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:15 am
by gaswalla
Ingineer wrote:
gaswalla wrote:Not sure where that rumor of a $5k battery came from, but it certainly is not true.
It's not a rumor, I have direct knowledge it's accurate. The price for a complete pack (dealer's MSRP) is currently around $5000. I expect it to cost less when they are rolling out of Smyrna.

-Phil

Great information. Thank you. If LEAF resale values keep plummeting, looks like there will definitely be a market for folks like Phil to retrofit a bigger/better battery into an used LEAF with a dying battery that someone could possibly buy on the cheap.

Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:29 am
by edatoakrun
Ingineer wrote:
gaswalla wrote:Not sure where that rumor of a $5k battery came from, but it certainly is not true.
It's not a rumor, I have direct knowledge it's accurate. The price for a complete pack (dealer's MSRP) is currently around $5000. I expect it to cost less when they are rolling out of Smyrna.

-Phil
That is great news! Especially so, since we're hearing it from a reliable source.

The implication is, by the time I choose to increase my (then current) capacity and range in five to ten years, the cost from Nissan could be even lower, and suppliers of alternative or "rebuilt" packs, may offer even more desirable options, either cheaper or with larger capacity giving me longer-than-~20 kWh (available) range.

Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:36 am
by smkettner
I still would like to hear the price from Nissan before I commited to buying a used LEAF with many miles and lost capacity.
Or the discount would be steep reflecting $15,000 as a possibility for battery replacement.

Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:47 am
by OrientExpress
smkettner wrote: $15,000 as a possibility for battery replacement.
$15K for a replacement battery is complete FUD, with no basis in reality here or otherwise. But with that said, if you think you can use it as a haggling tool to get a better price on a car, then by all means go for it.

Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:50 am
by edatoakrun
smkettner wrote:I still would like to hear the price from Nissan before I commited to buying a used LEAF with many miles and lost capacity.
Or the discount would be steep reflecting $15,000 as a possibility for battery replacement.
Back OT, I haven't seen any evidence of "plummeting" leaf resale value, other than as anecdotal reported from those who seem to have personal or financial interests in promoting the "rapid LEAF battery degradation" myth.

But if any of those Arizona owners with "degraded" battery packs actually offer them for sale at "degraded" prices, I think I won't be the only one considering what could be a very attractive purchase.

Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:59 am
by smkettner
OrientExpress wrote:$15K for a replacement battery is complete FUD, with no basis in reality here or otherwise.
I believe it is based on the component cell price times the number of cells + some for install.
But then I have not actually called to get a price on a single cell module.
Have also read the battery in the new car comprised 1/3 of the cost of the car.
Until the $5,000 price is public I don't fully believe that number will be the selling price either.
The point is we do not know so a well used LEAF is a risk.

Re: Wholesale value of the 2011 Leaf @Auction

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:21 am
by OrientExpress
Smkettner:

Yes, but estimating the value of a finished good on component costs is not a valid way to estimate costs of major automobile components for resale or replacement. A great number of types of high value parts consist of recycled and remanufactured components that are obtained as part of the replacement process, i.e. the concept of a "core". Manufacturers do this not only to optimize their manufacturing processes, but also to keep their inventory costs low. It is much cheaper to keep a remanufactured component on the books sitting in a warehouse than a new one. It is also how warranty costs are optimized. A warranty replacement will most certainly be done with a remanufactured part.