Beyond Tier 4 - the last 22.

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LeafinThePark

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
192
Location
Minneapolis
Here's a tidbit from Nissan-leaf.net:

http://nissan-leaf.net/2011/08/10/idaho-last-in-line-to-get-nissan-leaf/

"Representatives from Nissan Motor Co. informed the Idaho Business Review that the Nissan LEAF vehicle won’t be available to state residents until the end of 2012."

While I am not from Idaho....it makes me wonder if somewhere someone knows more than what is generally known about the "Last 22" that are not in Tiers 1-4. This list includes:

Alaska, Arkansas, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming.

So is this entire group in the same boat as Idaho? Is there some more differentiation to occur within this group? When will we know?
 
Tonight I had some spare time so I contacted Nissan CS to ask about my State (Minnesota). Here is the conversation....

You have been connected to Michelle.

Michelle: Thank you for contacting Nissan LEAF Customer Support, my name is Michelle. How may I help you today?

ME: Hi Michelle. I just have a question about the planned ordering dates for my part of the country. I am in Minnesota, and as far as I know we are one the states that was not included in the last press release.
ME: FYI - I reserved on May 15, 2010

Michelle: Yes I have pulled up your account and see you live in Minnesota. The ordering will begin in your state in 2012.
Michelle: With you reserving in 2010 you will be one of the first to order in your state.

ME: Do you have an idea if it would be early or late in 2012, and will we be ordering MY2012 or MY2013?

Michelle: I have Summer 2012.
Michelle: I would say you may have the option of either at that time.

ME: Ok, that is good information! Do you happen to know if or how the other states not included in Tiers 1-4 will be divided? Just curious.

Michelle: It will all at once as far as I see.
Michelle: Once the reserving and ordering open it will happen for the remaining states at one time.


So there you have it....from this is looks like summer 2012 for lots of people. I thought maybe they would try to hit the major markets of Detroit, Minneapolis, St. Louis, and KC a little sooner.
 
If you go to Huffington Post, many of the final states are either the poorest states and/or greatest unemployed states. Not all of them. There are likely other factors. We have a home in Montana. There, you'll find some of the greatest indifference to high tech / green things, and the mindset of many is that the government ought to not be telling them how much oily toxic smoke and unburned gas that their V8's exhaust should contain. Only this year has their government started making any waves about the effects of lead paint.
 
hill said:
If you go to Huffington Post, many of the final states are either the poorest states and/or greatest unemployed states. Not all of them. There are likely other factors. We have a home in Montana. There, you'll find some of the greatest indifference to high tech / green things, and the mindset of many is that the government ought to not be telling them how much oily toxic smoke and unburned gas that their V8's exhaust should contain. Only this year has their government started making any waves about the effects of lead paint.

There are certainly states in the list where not a whole lot of Leafs will be sold...makes sense not to spend much time/money/energy getting those up to speed...especially the western states like Montana, Wyoming, etc.

What surprised me is that they did not split up these remaining states and try to move a little earlier for some. In particular, what I would call the 'north central' states of Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri. Within this group there are several large markets like Detroit , St. Louis, Minneapolis/St Paul, Milwaukee, Kansas City. I'd also think that there would be fairly high demand in Vermont and New Hampshire that would be fairly easy to expand too with the limited area and the proximity to markets that already will have been set up.

I looked at population by Tier...

Tier 1 (7 states) - 87.4M
Tier 2 (9 states and DC) - 77.6M
Tier 3 (5 states) 43.3M
Tier 4 (7 states) 39.9M

Remaining are 22 states with combined population of 60.9M

If it were me, I'd divide up the remaining states like this -

Tier 5 (7 states-31.9M) Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Wisconsin

Tier 6 (15 states-29.0M) Everyone else.

I know it has been discussed...but do we know when the first Leaf will be rolling off the line in Tennessee? That could also be the trigger for opening up these areas.
 
LeafinThePark said:
I know it has been discussed...but do we know when the first Leaf will be rolling off the line in Tennessee? That could also be the trigger for opening up these areas.



Jake Holmes on April 21 2011 7:00 AM

Nissan wants to build more of its U.S.-bound products on American soil, and it will start by building the recently announced Infiniti JX crossover here from 2012. The JX, which goes on sale in spring 2012, is to be produced at Nissan’s plant in Smyrna, Tennessee.

Following the arrival of the JX, Nissan will begin production of the Nissan Leaf at Smyrna in late-2012, and the next-generation Rogue by 2013. The Smyrna plant, which opened in 1983, currently builds the Nissan Altima, Maxima, Xterra, Frontier, and Pathfinder. To make way for the three new vehicles at Smyrna, assembly of the Xterra SUV and Frontier pickup will be relocated to a Nissan factory in Canton, Mississippi.

Additionally, by fall 2012 Nissan plans to open a new facility in Tennessee to produce lithium-ion batteries for the Leaf.

Last year, Nissan built 1.1 million vehicles in the U.S., and today’s announcement should help the company increase that number to 1.7 million vehicles over the next few years. Executives hope that by 2015, 85 percent of Nissans and Infinitis sold in the U.S. will be built in American factories, up from the current level of 69 percent.

Source: Nissan
 
Given how the rollout has changed so far, it wouldn't surprise me if the "forgotten 22" end up divided into more tiers. Nor would surprise me if my state, Utah, ends up at the very bottom of the barrel.

Why? Because our state officials are blatantly in bed with Questar Gas. For years Utah has provided a $2,500 tax incentive toward the purchase of a CNG vehicle, but only $750 for other "clean" vehicles like EVs. This year, however, they retained the $2,500 CNG incentive, but reduced the "other" amount to $605. Then, to add insult to injury, they excluded pure EVs from the 2011 list of qualified vehicles! Yes, you read that correctly: the Chevy Volt and Toyota Prius are on the list, but not the Nissan LEAF! :eek:

I am sooo ready for my LEAF, but I can't blame Nissan for relegating Utah to the end of the line. Surely this is the only state to be marching backwards when it comes to tax incentives for EVs. :evil:
 
Yanquetino said:
Given how the rollout has changed so far, it wouldn't surprise me if the "forgotten 22" end up divided into more tiers. Nor would surprise me if my state, Utah, ends up at the very bottom of the barrel.
I am sooo ready for my LEAF, but I can't blame Nissan for relegating Utah to the end of the line. Surely this is the only state to be marching backwards when it comes to tax incentives for EVs. :evil:

Nope, you're not the only state. We don't have ANY tax incentives for any alternative vehicles right now, but AVs (no hybrids/bi-fuels) do get a big reduction on registration/licensing (BEVs, H2, 100% CNG/P) I sold my Civic GX to a guy in Utah where he is only paying $1.07/gge for fuel/cng. He also received a $2100 tax credit for buying my used GX. Utah is the only state in the country that I know of that gives a tax credit for buying USED cng vehicles.
 
LeafinThePark said:
hill said:
If you go to Huffington Post, many of the final states are either the poorest states and/or greatest unemployed states. Not all of them. There are likely other factors. We have a home in Montana. There, you'll find some of the greatest indifference to high tech / green things, and the mindset of many is that the government ought to not be telling them how much oily toxic smoke and unburned gas that their V8's exhaust should contain. Only this year has their government started making any waves about the effects of lead paint.

There are certainly states in the list where not a whole lot of Leafs will be sold...makes sense not to spend much time/money/energy getting those up to speed...especially the western states like Montana, Wyoming, etc.

What surprised me is that they did not split up these remaining states and try to move a little earlier for some. In particular, what I would call the 'north central' states of Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri. Within this group there are several large markets like Detroit , St. Louis, Minneapolis/St Paul, Milwaukee, Kansas City. I'd also think that there would be fairly high demand in Vermont and New Hampshire that would be fairly easy to expand too with the limited area and the proximity to markets that already will have been set up.

I looked at population by Tier...

Tier 1 (7 states) - 87.4M
Tier 2 (9 states and DC) - 77.6M
Tier 3 (5 states) 43.3M
Tier 4 (7 states) 39.9M

Remaining are 22 states with combined population of 60.9M

If it were me, I'd divide up the remaining states like this -

Tier 5 (7 states-31.9M) Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Wisconsin

Tier 6 (15 states-29.0M) Everyone else.

I know it has been discussed...but do we know when the first Leaf will be rolling off the line in Tennessee? That could also be the trigger for opening up these areas.


This is very interesting information. Thanks.
 
LEAFfan said:
Nope, you're not the only state. We don't have ANY tax incentives for any alternative vehicles right now, but AVs (no hybrids/bi-fuels) do get a big reduction on registration/licensing (BEVs, H2, 100% CNG/P).
Oh, I know mine is not the only state lacking an EV incentive. What I tried to say is that mine is probably the only one to have had an incentive in the past, yet this year has eliminated it entirely for pure EVs like the LEAF. I would be most curious to know if any other state has taken a step backwards like that --right when EVs are coming to market!
 
Yanquetino said:
LEAFfan said:
Nope, you're not the only state. We don't have ANY tax incentives for any alternative vehicles right now, but AVs (no hybrids/bi-fuels) do get a big reduction on registration/licensing (BEVs, H2, 100% CNG/P).
Oh, I know mine is not the only state lacking an EV incentive. What I tried to say is that mine is probably the only one to have had an incentive in the past, yet this year has eliminated it entirely for pure EVs like the LEAF. I would be most curious to know if any other state has taken a step backwards like that --right when EVs are coming to market!

In OK new EV had 50% tax credit but is over now. No more incentives for EV only registration discount left.
 
To me it certainly would make sense to divide up the last group...if nothing else to keep the momentum going. Looking at the timing of each tier opening up...

Tier 2 - July 2011
Tier 3 - Fall 2011
Tier 4 - by "end of year."

That means every 2-3 months, assuming this schedule holds. It sure makes the gap between tier 4's "end of 2011" and tier 5's 'Summer 2012' appear rather large.
 
tps said:
LeafinThePark said:
It sure makes the gap between tier 4's "end of 2011" and tier 5's 'Summer 2012' appear rather large.
Maybe this is a sign that tier 5 and after will be ordering MY 2013...

Based on my chat with customer service (see 2nd post in this thread) we would be able to choose between 2012 and 2013. I just wonder based on production starting up in Smyrna, if Tier 5 will be received all 2013 Leafs made in the USA. Timing as of know seems about right.
 
I can only imagine how hard the wait for "beyond tier 4" must be. I'm in tier 4 ("order before the end of 2011"), which likely means spring delivery, and it's bad enough to wait as those nearby continue to order...
 
Order windows will open sooner than people think...

Nissan is scraping tier 1 and 2 right now for orders....

The economy , jobs and lower or at least flat fuel prices will reduce conversion and conquest orders

Reservation to order will be lower
New res/0rder will be lower

Result will be new markets open faster

Nissan has the plant cranking 2012's. They need buyers and it's a tough market

You people in other tiers/waves will see invitations to order soon....
 
kmp, sure hope you are right.

I think there are factors working both to speed up opening up the country and others that still could delay it.

1 - The Leaf so far has been very well received in the initial markets. As people keep seeing these cars and hearing how happy their neighbors and coworkers are with them they will be creating more demand in initial markets. I think a lot of 2012's will be sold in Tier 1 states. For those of us in 'flyover' land, it may have been better if there was more complaints.

2 - The economy pretty much stinks right now, but a lot of people that are interested in the Leaf are college educated individuals who tend as a group to be less effected. that said I do think this will cause Nissan to expand the market as soon as they can.

3 - The slow introduction of true competition. The focus EV seems to be getting off to a slow start, and will initially release only in California and New York. If anything, Nissan may delay release to new markets to make sure there are plenty of Leafs available in these markets.

4 - The overall mode in the country regarding state spending/incentives is certainly not going to help sales.

5 - Oil and gas are both relatively cheap right now. I think this will hurt sales in Tier 1 and 2 and will actually help speed up the expansion of the market.

Overall it is probably easier for Nissan to take the cars rolling off the line and funnel them to buyers in California than to open up new states...so I am concerned that until the California (and other Tier 1 states) is fairly saturated and no competitors are selling in the hinterlands, they have very little incentive to expand.

L
 
kmp647 said:
Nissan is scraping tier 1 and 2 right now for orders....
So rather than get me primed for a LEAF at the Philly Drive Electric event, it seemed like they were trying to convert me to a Versa (they kept asking if I'd like to test drive a Versa); maybe this was so they could take my order right away. I'm not sure quite what to think of it, even after I've had some time to think about it... It seemed as if they wanted me to buy a Versa rather than a LEAF. Not a tactic that makes sense if they need more LEAF orders!
 
tps said:
So rather than get me primed for a LEAF at the Philly Drive Electric event, it seemed like they were trying to convert me to a Versa (they kept asking if I'd like to test drive a Versa); maybe this was so they could take my order right away. I'm not sure quite what to think of it, even after I've had some time to think about it... It seemed as if they wanted me to buy a Versa rather than a LEAF. Not a tactic that makes sense if they need more LEAF orders!
Wha...? :shock: I've never heard of this happening on the tour. Was it some local-yokel dealer helping out with the crowds who suggested this? If not, the only explanation that occurs to me is that Nissan wants drivers to first experience the Versa so that they will then be even more impressed with the LEAF...? :?:
 
tps said:
kmp647 said:
Nissan is scraping tier 1 and 2 right now for orders....
So rather than get me primed for a LEAF at the Philly Drive Electric event, it seemed like they were trying to convert me to a Versa (they kept asking if I'd like to test drive a Versa); maybe this was so they could take my order right away. I'm not sure quite what to think of it, even after I've had some time to think about it... It seemed as if they wanted me to buy a Versa rather than a LEAF. Not a tactic that makes sense if they need more LEAF orders!

So this Drive Electric event was at a Nissan dealership? The one I went to was in a mall parking lot, no local dealers present, was staffed by Nissan NA, and only Leafs available to drive - thought that was by design. Very strange......
 
tps said:
So rather than get me primed for a LEAF at the Philly Drive Electric event, it seemed like they were trying to convert me to a Versa (they kept asking if I'd like to test drive a Versa); maybe this was so they could take my order right away. I'm not sure quite what to think of it, even after I've had some time to think about it... It seemed as if they wanted me to buy a Versa rather than a LEAF. Not a tactic that makes sense if they need more LEAF orders!


Are you talking about a visit to your local Nissan dealer and expecting them to get you psyched for the Drive a LEAF event? I went to my dealer here in NH several weeks ago and they didn't even know about the upcoming event in Boston. I gave them all the details on that and stirred up some interest among them to attend themselves.

I visited a dealer in Georgia last month, near where we will be moving soon, and they knew the LEAF existed (they were LEAF qualified) but I knew more about the LEAF than they did.

If you were at the Dealership talking about the LEAF, they probably just wanted to sell you a car off their lot. They knew enough about the LEAF to steer you to the Versa, but knew that was the only thing close to the LEAF that they could sell you off their lot.
 
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