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Beyond Tier 4 - the last 22.

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:07 pm
by LeafinThePark
Here's a tidbit from Nissan-leaf.net:

http://nissan-leaf.net/2011/08/10/idaho ... ssan-leaf/

"Representatives from Nissan Motor Co. informed the Idaho Business Review that the Nissan LEAF vehicle won’t be available to state residents until the end of 2012."

While I am not from Idaho....it makes me wonder if somewhere someone knows more than what is generally known about the "Last 22" that are not in Tiers 1-4. This list includes:

Alaska, Arkansas, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming.

So is this entire group in the same boat as Idaho? Is there some more differentiation to occur within this group? When will we know?

Re: Beyond Tier 4 - the last 22.

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:46 pm
by LeafinThePark
Tonight I had some spare time so I contacted Nissan CS to ask about my State (Minnesota). Here is the conversation....

You have been connected to Michelle.

Michelle: Thank you for contacting Nissan LEAF Customer Support, my name is Michelle. How may I help you today?

ME: Hi Michelle. I just have a question about the planned ordering dates for my part of the country. I am in Minnesota, and as far as I know we are one the states that was not included in the last press release.
ME: FYI - I reserved on May 15, 2010

Michelle: Yes I have pulled up your account and see you live in Minnesota. The ordering will begin in your state in 2012.
Michelle: With you reserving in 2010 you will be one of the first to order in your state.

ME: Do you have an idea if it would be early or late in 2012, and will we be ordering MY2012 or MY2013?

Michelle: I have Summer 2012.
Michelle: I would say you may have the option of either at that time.

ME: Ok, that is good information! Do you happen to know if or how the other states not included in Tiers 1-4 will be divided? Just curious.

Michelle: It will all at once as far as I see.
Michelle: Once the reserving and ordering open it will happen for the remaining states at one time.


So there you have it....from this is looks like summer 2012 for lots of people. I thought maybe they would try to hit the major markets of Detroit, Minneapolis, St. Louis, and KC a little sooner.

Re: Beyond Tier 4 - the last 22.

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:25 am
by hill
If you go to Huffington Post, many of the final states are either the poorest states and/or greatest unemployed states. Not all of them. There are likely other factors. We have a home in Montana. There, you'll find some of the greatest indifference to high tech / green things, and the mindset of many is that the government ought to not be telling them how much oily toxic smoke and unburned gas that their V8's exhaust should contain. Only this year has their government started making any waves about the effects of lead paint.

Re: Beyond Tier 4 - the last 22.

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:15 am
by LeafinThePark
hill wrote:If you go to Huffington Post, many of the final states are either the poorest states and/or greatest unemployed states. Not all of them. There are likely other factors. We have a home in Montana. There, you'll find some of the greatest indifference to high tech / green things, and the mindset of many is that the government ought to not be telling them how much oily toxic smoke and unburned gas that their V8's exhaust should contain. Only this year has their government started making any waves about the effects of lead paint.
There are certainly states in the list where not a whole lot of Leafs will be sold...makes sense not to spend much time/money/energy getting those up to speed...especially the western states like Montana, Wyoming, etc.

What surprised me is that they did not split up these remaining states and try to move a little earlier for some. In particular, what I would call the 'north central' states of Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri. Within this group there are several large markets like Detroit , St. Louis, Minneapolis/St Paul, Milwaukee, Kansas City. I'd also think that there would be fairly high demand in Vermont and New Hampshire that would be fairly easy to expand too with the limited area and the proximity to markets that already will have been set up.

I looked at population by Tier...

Tier 1 (7 states) - 87.4M
Tier 2 (9 states and DC) - 77.6M
Tier 3 (5 states) 43.3M
Tier 4 (7 states) 39.9M

Remaining are 22 states with combined population of 60.9M

If it were me, I'd divide up the remaining states like this -

Tier 5 (7 states-31.9M) Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Wisconsin

Tier 6 (15 states-29.0M) Everyone else.

I know it has been discussed...but do we know when the first Leaf will be rolling off the line in Tennessee? That could also be the trigger for opening up these areas.

Re: Beyond Tier 4 - the last 22.

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:28 am
by TonyWilliams
LeafinThePark wrote:I know it has been discussed...but do we know when the first Leaf will be rolling off the line in Tennessee? That could also be the trigger for opening up these areas.


Jake Holmes on April 21 2011 7:00 AM

Nissan wants to build more of its U.S.-bound products on American soil, and it will start by building the recently announced Infiniti JX crossover here from 2012. The JX, which goes on sale in spring 2012, is to be produced at Nissan’s plant in Smyrna, Tennessee.

Following the arrival of the JX, Nissan will begin production of the Nissan Leaf at Smyrna in late-2012, and the next-generation Rogue by 2013. The Smyrna plant, which opened in 1983, currently builds the Nissan Altima, Maxima, Xterra, Frontier, and Pathfinder. To make way for the three new vehicles at Smyrna, assembly of the Xterra SUV and Frontier pickup will be relocated to a Nissan factory in Canton, Mississippi.

Additionally, by fall 2012 Nissan plans to open a new facility in Tennessee to produce lithium-ion batteries for the Leaf.

Last year, Nissan built 1.1 million vehicles in the U.S., and today’s announcement should help the company increase that number to 1.7 million vehicles over the next few years. Executives hope that by 2015, 85 percent of Nissans and Infinitis sold in the U.S. will be built in American factories, up from the current level of 69 percent.

Source: Nissan

Re: Beyond Tier 4 - the last 22.

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:31 pm
by Yanquetino
Given how the rollout has changed so far, it wouldn't surprise me if the "forgotten 22" end up divided into more tiers. Nor would surprise me if my state, Utah, ends up at the very bottom of the barrel.

Why? Because our state officials are blatantly in bed with Questar Gas. For years Utah has provided a $2,500 tax incentive toward the purchase of a CNG vehicle, but only $750 for other "clean" vehicles like EVs. This year, however, they retained the $2,500 CNG incentive, but reduced the "other" amount to $605. Then, to add insult to injury, they excluded pure EVs from the 2011 list of qualified vehicles! Yes, you read that correctly: the Chevy Volt and Toyota Prius are on the list, but not the Nissan LEAF! :o

I am sooo ready for my LEAF, but I can't blame Nissan for relegating Utah to the end of the line. Surely this is the only state to be marching backwards when it comes to tax incentives for EVs. :evil:

Re: Beyond Tier 4 - the last 22.

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:35 am
by LEAFfan
Yanquetino wrote:Given how the rollout has changed so far, it wouldn't surprise me if the "forgotten 22" end up divided into more tiers. Nor would surprise me if my state, Utah, ends up at the very bottom of the barrel.
I am sooo ready for my LEAF, but I can't blame Nissan for relegating Utah to the end of the line. Surely this is the only state to be marching backwards when it comes to tax incentives for EVs. :evil:
Nope, you're not the only state. We don't have ANY tax incentives for any alternative vehicles right now, but AVs (no hybrids/bi-fuels) do get a big reduction on registration/licensing (BEVs, H2, 100% CNG/P) I sold my Civic GX to a guy in Utah where he is only paying $1.07/gge for fuel/cng. He also received a $2100 tax credit for buying my used GX. Utah is the only state in the country that I know of that gives a tax credit for buying USED cng vehicles.

Re: Beyond Tier 4 - the last 22.

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:05 am
by jimcmorr
LeafinThePark wrote:
hill wrote:If you go to Huffington Post, many of the final states are either the poorest states and/or greatest unemployed states. Not all of them. There are likely other factors. We have a home in Montana. There, you'll find some of the greatest indifference to high tech / green things, and the mindset of many is that the government ought to not be telling them how much oily toxic smoke and unburned gas that their V8's exhaust should contain. Only this year has their government started making any waves about the effects of lead paint.
There are certainly states in the list where not a whole lot of Leafs will be sold...makes sense not to spend much time/money/energy getting those up to speed...especially the western states like Montana, Wyoming, etc.

What surprised me is that they did not split up these remaining states and try to move a little earlier for some. In particular, what I would call the 'north central' states of Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri. Within this group there are several large markets like Detroit , St. Louis, Minneapolis/St Paul, Milwaukee, Kansas City. I'd also think that there would be fairly high demand in Vermont and New Hampshire that would be fairly easy to expand too with the limited area and the proximity to markets that already will have been set up.

I looked at population by Tier...

Tier 1 (7 states) - 87.4M
Tier 2 (9 states and DC) - 77.6M
Tier 3 (5 states) 43.3M
Tier 4 (7 states) 39.9M

Remaining are 22 states with combined population of 60.9M

If it were me, I'd divide up the remaining states like this -

Tier 5 (7 states-31.9M) Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Wisconsin

Tier 6 (15 states-29.0M) Everyone else.

I know it has been discussed...but do we know when the first Leaf will be rolling off the line in Tennessee? That could also be the trigger for opening up these areas.

This is very interesting information. Thanks.

Re: Beyond Tier 4 - the last 22.

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:48 am
by Yanquetino
LEAFfan wrote:Nope, you're not the only state. We don't have ANY tax incentives for any alternative vehicles right now, but AVs (no hybrids/bi-fuels) do get a big reduction on registration/licensing (BEVs, H2, 100% CNG/P).
Oh, I know mine is not the only state lacking an EV incentive. What I tried to say is that mine is probably the only one to have had an incentive in the past, yet this year has eliminated it entirely for pure EVs like the LEAF. I would be most curious to know if any other state has taken a step backwards like that --right when EVs are coming to market!

Re: Beyond Tier 4 - the last 22.

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:44 am
by EdmondLeaf
Yanquetino wrote:
LEAFfan wrote:Nope, you're not the only state. We don't have ANY tax incentives for any alternative vehicles right now, but AVs (no hybrids/bi-fuels) do get a big reduction on registration/licensing (BEVs, H2, 100% CNG/P).
Oh, I know mine is not the only state lacking an EV incentive. What I tried to say is that mine is probably the only one to have had an incentive in the past, yet this year has eliminated it entirely for pure EVs like the LEAF. I would be most curious to know if any other state has taken a step backwards like that --right when EVs are coming to market!
In OK new EV had 50% tax credit but is over now. No more incentives for EV only registration discount left.