JonathanMarshall
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Fri May 11, 2012 10:33 am

I hope readers of this forum will keep an open mind about PG&E's new proposal for EV charging rates. A staffer for the Natural Resources Defense Council greeted the revamped proposal warmly - see http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/mbaum ... _rate.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

I describe the proposal in a story on PG&E Currents at http://www.pgecurrents.com/2012/05/10/p ... %E2%80%99/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

For a copy of PG&E's advice letter, see http://www.pge.com/nots/rates/tariffs/t ... 10-E-A.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

greenleaf
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Fri May 11, 2012 11:03 am

So CPUC directed PG&E to simplify the schedules. But it looks like the number of different TOU periods actually remains the same as the existing schedules (I'm not comparing with the complicated one proposed earlier).

The one big disincentive is that the off-peak rates increased significantly (rates per kWh):

Winter
Current E9A tier one off-peak : $0.04680
New proposed : $0.09930 (212% increase)

Summer
Current E9A tier one off-peak : $0.03743
New proposed : $0.09712 (259% increase)
Last edited by greenleaf on Fri May 11, 2012 11:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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oakwcj
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Fri May 11, 2012 11:19 am

JonathanMarshall wrote:I hope readers of this forum will keep an open mind about PG&E's new proposal for EV charging rates. A staffer for the Natural Resources Defense Council greeted the revamped proposal warmly - see http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/mbaum ... _rate.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

I describe the proposal in a story on PG&E Currents at http://www.pgecurrents.com/2012/05/10/p ... %E2%80%99/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

For a copy of PG&E's advice letter, see http://www.pge.com/nots/rates/tariffs/t ... 10-E-A.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
I agree that the new proposal is in most respects an improvement on the old one. However, it would still impose winter peak rates for the first time, although PG&E has utterly failed to provide any evidence of peak demand in the winter.
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oakwcj
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Fri May 11, 2012 11:24 am

greenleaf wrote:So CPUC directed PG&E to simplify the schedules. But it looks like the number of different TOU periods actually remains the same as the existing schedules (I'm not comparing with the complicated one proposed earlier).

The one big disincentive is that the off-peak rates increased by about 50%.
The simplification is the elimination of baselines and tiers. While I suppose that it is simpler to have summer and winter peak periods, it's also substantially more costly for consumers.
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greenleaf
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Fri May 11, 2012 11:28 am

oakwcj wrote:
greenleaf wrote:So CPUC directed PG&E to simplify the schedules. But it looks like the number of different TOU periods actually remains the same as the existing schedules (I'm not comparing with the complicated one proposed earlier).

The one big disincentive is that the off-peak rates increased by about 50%.
The simplification is the elimination of baselines and tiers. While I suppose that it is simpler to have summer and winter peak periods, it's also substantially more costly for consumers.
I updated my post. The off-peak increases are as follows (rates per kWh)

Winter
Current E9A tier one off-peak : $0.04680
New proposed : $0.09930 (212% increase)

Summer
Current E9A tier one off-peak : $0.03743
New proposed : $0.09712 (259% increase)
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greenleaf
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Fri May 11, 2012 11:30 am

oakwcj wrote:The simplification is the elimination of baselines and tiers.
OK, I missed that part.
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waitingforaleaf
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Fri May 11, 2012 11:38 am

greenleaf wrote: I updated my post. The off-peak increases are as follows (rates per kWh)

Winter
Current E9A tier one off-peak : $0.04680
New proposed : $0.09930 (212% increase)

Summer
Current E9A tier one off-peak : $0.03743
New proposed : $0.09712 (259% increase)
I don't believe that is a fair comparison to make as most households will exceed tier 1 from domestic usage alone. You would have to compare the averaged prices through the tiers used in order to make an actual comparison to the proposed EV rate. Likewise, the statement that it costs a "buck a gallon" to fill up the EV at off-peak hours disguises the fact that household electricity usage under the EV rate (during the peak and partial peak hours) is heavily increased for customers who normally do not exceed the first three tiers under E-9.

The EV rate (while better than the earlier proposed change to E9A) will still represent an increase in prices for lower usage customers, and the elimination of E-9 at the end of 2014 will likely guarantee that price increase.
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Spies
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Fri May 11, 2012 12:00 pm

greenleaf wrote: Winter
Current E9A tier one off-peak : $0.04680
New proposed : $0.09930 (212% increase)

Summer
Current E9A tier one off-peak : $0.03743
New proposed : $0.09712 (259% increase)
This is an over simplification of the rates and is rather meaningless without also computing the changes of eliminating tiers and baselines. For example I could also compute the following:
Winter
Current E9A tier four off-peak : $0.20011
New proposed : $0.09930 (202% decrease)

Summer
Current E9A tier four off-peak : $0.20011
New proposed : $0.09712 (206% decrease)

Having said that however by eliminating baselines and tiers the incentive to conserve electricity is completely removed and thus shifts the burden from the heavy consumers subsidizing the light consumers to the light consumers subsidizing the heavy consumers. So the light consumers pay a substantial amount more while the heavy consumers pay less.

I have been on E9A for a long time myself and did a quick computation on how the latest proposed rates would impact me and I estimated it would be an increase of about 33% over the year. I am in territory X and I used 7,170 kWh over the past year at a cost of $764 and with the new rates it would be about $1,017 or more. Needless to say I plan to stay on the current E9A rate as long as I can.
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greenleaf
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Fri May 11, 2012 12:14 pm

Spies wrote:
greenleaf wrote: Winter
Current E9A tier one off-peak : $0.04680
New proposed : $0.09930 (212% increase)

Summer
Current E9A tier one off-peak : $0.03743
New proposed : $0.09712 (259% increase)
This is an over simplification of the rates and is rather meaningless without also computing the changes of eliminating tiers and baselines. For example I could also compute the following:
Winter
Current E9A tier four off-peak : $0.20011
New proposed : $0.09930 (202% decrease)

Summer
Current E9A tier four off-peak : $0.20011
New proposed : $0.09712 (206% decrease)

Having said that however by eliminating baselines and tiers the incentive to conserve electricity is completely removed and thus shifts the burden from the heavy consumers subsidizing the light consumers to the light consumers subsidizing the heavy consumers. So the light consumers pay a substantial amount more while the heavy consumers pay less.

I have been on E9A for a long time myself and did a quick computation on how the latest proposed rates would impact me and I estimated it would be an increase of about 33% over the year. I am in territory X and I used 7,170 kWh over the past year at a cost of $764 and with the new rates it would be about $1,017 or more. Needless to say I plan to stay on the current E9A rate as long as I can.
I realized many people are not in tier one or two. Point taken.
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Fri May 11, 2012 12:18 pm

waitingforaleaf wrote:Likewise, the statement that it costs a "buck a gallon" to fill up the EV at off-peak hours disguises the fact that household electricity usage under the EV rate (during the peak and partial peak hours) is heavily increased for customers who normally do not exceed the first three tiers under E-9.
I find the whole "buck a gallon" thing completely meaningless without context. To me its no different than saying the Chevy Volt gets 230 MPG.

EPA's own formula of 33.7 kWh of energy per refined gallon of gas would mean under the new rates one would be paying the equivalent of $3.27 a gallon summer off peak and $3.35 a gallon winter off peak. Better than todays gasoline prices but no where near $1 gallon.
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