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TonyWilliams
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Re: SDG&E asks for higher rates on customers who go solar

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:15 pm

SanDust,

Please, please, please send this to CPUC in response to SDGE petition.

Tony

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garygid
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Re: SDG&E asks for higher rates on customers who go solar

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:02 pm

It's a big step to go completely off-Grid, but, if pressed,
some PV owners might consider doing just that.

Of course the energy storage for nights and
cloudy days is a significant issue.

So, moving much usage to peak hours, so there is no excess generation
(for SDG&E to sell), and arranging to have very little use during evenings
and at night (for SDG&E to charge us for) ...
is an intermediate step that many might consider.
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walterbays
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Re: SDG&E asks for higher rates on customers who go solar

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:33 pm

garygid wrote:It's a big step to go completely off-Grid, but, if pressed,
some PV owners might consider doing just that.

Of course the energy storage for nights and
cloudy days is a significant issue.

So, moving much usage to peak hours, so there is no excess generation
(for SDG&E to sell), and arranging to have very little use during evenings
and at night (for SDG&E to charge us for) ...
is an intermediate step that many might consider.
I think if SDG&E gets this requested increase we'll probably see a lot of batteries added to grid tied houses. Not the huge battery banks that would be needed to go completely off-grid, but just big enough to hold all of your daytime peak PV production to avoid sending a single kW back to SDG&E, and then use that energy at night to avoid drawing from SDG&E. Of course that tactic only works for homeowners who are net electricity consumers rather than net generators - something that owning a LEAF makes a little easier. Net producers would have to calculate whether they'd be better off selling their excess production for a pittance and paying a huge transmission cost to do so, or just dissipate it. I'm going to talk to some solar companies to see whether installing a small battery buffer like that is feasible.

Of course if everyone did that then SDG&E would need a lot of new generating capacity to replace that daytime peak production currently supplied by rooftop PV, plus new transmission capacity to bring it into the county.

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garygid
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Re: SDG&E asks for higher rates on customers who go solar

Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:19 pm

If you find a reasonable way for equipment to:

1. not send any excess energy back to the grid.
2. store energy for evening/nite use.
3. use the stored energy to avoid drawing from the Grid.
4. throttle back generation when local storage is full, and generation would exceed local usage.
5. optionally allow excess generation to go to the grid.
6. work with an existing SunnyBoy Inverter.

I would be very interested in learning more.
Thanks

We should start a "Grid-Tied Island" thread, I suspect.
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Spies
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Re: SDG&E asks for higher rates on customers who go solar

Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:17 am

garygid wrote:We should start a "Grid-Tied Island" thread, I suspect.
Yes I think we should! I am very interested to know how this concept relates to having a Leaf.

I have not invested in Solar myself yet for a number of reasons and cost being the main one. If these proposed changes by SDG&E is adopted they would no doubt be adopted by PG&E as well where I am. This would change the return on investment by a huge amount. So the "Grid-Tied Island" concept seems to be a way to better prepare for these kinds of changes when investing in solar. One concept I would like to see further discussed is perhaps running DC form the solar array to near the EVSE or battery storage before it goes though the DC to AC. I suspect this would allow for better charge efficiency and allow charging the Leaf or storage batteries directly from the array and perhaps there are already inverters available that have DC out as an option.

Oh and I just got my latest PG&E bill and a result of the recent lowering of tiers I was in tier 4 for the first time. Of course the proposed changes to the PG&E EV charging rate will easily double my bill if adopted too so I am very interested in the "Grid-Tied Island" concept.
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Re: SDG&E asks for higher rates on customers who go solar

Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:36 am

Boulder has a fix:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/us/bo ... ity&st=cse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But as you are in San Diego, there are prolly too many knuckle draggers who think it is a better idea to have SDGE skimming 20% off the top for marketing, profit, bonuses, executive jets, senior management retreats and dividends.
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DaveEV
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Re: SDG&E asks for higher rates on customers who go solar

Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:18 pm

walterbays wrote:I think if SDG&E gets this requested increase we'll probably see a lot of batteries added to grid tied houses. Not the huge battery banks that would be needed to go completely off-grid, but just big enough to hold all of your daytime peak PV production to avoid sending a single kW back to SDG&E, and then use that energy at night to avoid drawing from SDG&E.
If you're a typical household where you don't consume a whole lot during the day while the sun is shining, you're going to need a much bigger battery pack than you think.

Even with my modest 3.24 kW system, I've exported as much as 17 kWh to the grid in a single day (not typical, around 10-12 kWh is more typical in the sunny months). Over the same time period, I've drawn up to 21 kWh from the grid. That excludes EV usage.

You're probably looking at least $500 / kWh for storage - never mind the efficiency losses involved with storage. I'm probably better off replacing my electric dryer with a gas unit financially at about $1000 if I'm looking to minimize my demand charges - that thing will suck down 3-4 kW for about an hour at a time.

Even if I could buy a 2 kWh household storage unit for $1000 - would it be smart enough to do peak load shaving in the face of highly variable single-household demands without running out of juice before my peak loads are done running?
walterbays wrote:Of course that tactic only works for homeowners who are net electricity consumers rather than net generators - something that owning a LEAF makes a little easier. Net producers would have to calculate whether they'd be better off selling their excess production for a pittance and paying a huge transmission cost to do so, or just dissipate it.
Net generators are already paid a pittance - it makes no sense financially to install a home PV system that generates more power than you use in a year.
walterbays wrote:Of course if everyone did that then SDG&E would need a lot of new generating capacity to replace that daytime peak production currently supplied by rooftop PV, plus new transmission capacity to bring it into the county.
Currently, not really. There's only about 35 MW of residential PV installed in SDG&E's region and about 37 MW of non-residential PV. SDG&E connects about 1 MW of residential PV a month - has maintained this rate for the past 2 years now.

Lots of data and stats here: http://www.californiasolarstatistics.ca.gov/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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DaveEV
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Re: SDG&E asks for higher rates on customers who go solar

Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:01 pm

Lots of good letters to the editor at SignOnSanDiego:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011 ... lar-rates/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

eHelmholtz
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Re: SDG&E asks for higher rates on customers who go solar

Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:35 pm

I just signed the petition below. I don't have solar power but it seems a sensible thing to do to encourage adoption of green fuels.

http://signon.org/sign/fight-san-diego- ... by=1255831" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SanDust
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Re: SDG&E asks for higher rates on customers who go solar

Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:51 pm

Note that AFAIK this proposal does not effect the EV-TOU2 plan or any other TOU plan. If you're a net generator and have an EV that plan is probably the best deal out there. This proposal doesn't change that.

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