Official California PG&E Thread

[Nekota]

PG&E has been very difficult for me in getting E9a going and finally after 10 or more calls I have received my 2nd E9a bill. I contacted PG&E in October of last year and they didn't want to talk to me until I knew when the car was coming. With the LEAF deliveries very sparse and changing, I didn't contact them again until the week the car was here - then PG&E wanted to know why I had not contacted them earlier, but they don't keep very good records in this area either. So I wanted to switch to E9a and get information on the cost of E9b and after another round of a dozen phone calls I finally have E9a but only retroactive to start of July. June was too complicated for PG&E to calculate. (that's what the rep said!)

I had E1 plan in zone X with gas heating and no solar pv so I had about 1 year of SmartMeter data to estimate energy consumption. When you start E9a without PV you don't need a new meter (NET meter) so the SmartMeter will work for E9a without PV but you lose the energy use by hour access at PG&E logging that was available with the E1 pricing. Then in June 2011 the 30 day summer baseline for PG&E for zone X was reduced from 363KWhr to 330KWhr while adding the LEAF increased my electric consumption by 300KWHr (450 to 750) during the summer. For June my average cost on E1 was 18 cents/KWhr, for July E9a it was 14 cents/KWhr and for August it is 17 cents/KWhr.

Putting in E9b may require new underground wire replacement and PG&E believes I have buried wires and I would have to make a trench, install conduit and then PG&E will pull new wiring to support the two meters. At the rate progress is going it will be sometime next year before I will switch to E9b or reconsider putting in PV to offset the tier 3&4 consumption.

[jtrain73]

That sounds like a good direction for you to go. To change schedules I think you just call the number on your PG&E bill. Since you don't have solar panels (or a wind turbine), you would keep your current smart meter. Obviously you will want to use a timer to charge the car between midnight and 7 AM.

If you are currently going up into tier 5, welcome to some of the highest rates in the nation. You might want to seriously consider getting solar panels. Trying to generate all of your electricity might well be impossible, depending on your roof, and the up-front cost would be very high. It would probably be better to get just enough panels to keep you down in tier 1 and 2 most of the time.

Thanks - we are in a rental house, so not sure solar panels are an option. Are there any that would be rental appropriate?

[planet4ever]

Thanks - we are in a rental house, so not sure solar panels are an option. Are there any that would be rental appropriate?

No, not that I ever heard of. I guess you might be able to convince the owner that:

1. Adding solar panels will increase the value of the property.
2. There are some nice tax incentives available now that won't be there forever.
3. Renters should be willing to pay a bit higher rent since their utility bills will be lower.
4. You, in particular, would be willing to pay $x a month more [where x is some value you estimate as being less than your utility bill savings].

Ray

[cwerdna]

take a look at this great excel app
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/804727/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... -357k?dn=y

It will help you simulate you energy bill using EV and/or PV with E1 , E6 and E9 rates.

In my case , with a 5.0kw system, It will cost less with E9 than E6.

Two things to pay attention to in the file.
- You need to update the rates as this file is from 2008
- The KW estimated are for best condition .I had to use 4.2 for the Solar array size to reflect the actual power output of my system

Man, this is a very long thread (much too long for me to read thru). Is there a version w/PG&E's current rates?

Also, what are some examples of really good efficiency figures (miles/kwh) vs. poor ones? I'm just trying to get a range.

[astrorob]

my car thinks it is getting 4.1mi/kwh, driving 3x per week between oakland and san francisco and back.

i think given the inaccuracy of the dash computer plus the charger efficiency, the wall to wheels is probably closer to 3.4mi/kwh in this scenario. i doubt this is a very good result, but the elevation changes kind of kill the economy.

[JeffN]

When you start E9a without PV you don't need a new meter (NET meter) so the SmartMeter will work for E9a without PV but you lose the energy use by hour access at PG&E logging that was available with the E1 pricing.

They fixed the website recently so hourly usage data is now available for E9a customers. I also had problems getting PG&E to switch me to E9a rates when I got my Volt a year ago.

Anyone think about getting a separate meter for E9b should be aware that PG&E and the state utility board are in the middle of discussing major changes to the rate structure to move away from tiered pricing.

[planet4ever]

i doubt this is a very good result, but the elevation changes kind of kill the economy.

Driving between Oakland and San Francisco? Was that a joke? Or do you live on Grizzly Peak and work on Mt. Sutro? Certainly the elevation of the Bay Bridge isn't enough to notice, and much of Oakland is flat. As for San Francisco's famous hills, most through streets don't climb far above 300 feet, if that. My guess is that the biggest mileage killer in San Francisco is red lights, not the hills.

Ray

[Andy]

I think a good compromise for a new E9A, provided reasonable rates, would be to drop the tiers for off-peak only. Then we would not get penalized with exorbitant rates for adding an electric car to the household as long as we charged it at night.

[oakwcj]

I think a good compromise for a new E9A, provided reasonable rates, would be to drop the tiers for off-peak only. Then we would not get penalized with exorbitant rates for adding an electric car to the household as long as we charged it at night.

I made precisely this recommendation in my protest letter. In its reply, PG&E claimed that there was no practical way to accomplish this kind of rate structure, when, in fact, it could be done quite easily. FWIW, the suggestion that baselines and tiers be retained for peak and partial-peak periods, while eliminating them for off-peak periods, is in the record before the CPUC.

[DougMarker]

PG&E E-9 users CAUTION: DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME ADJUSTMENT: "The time periods shown above will
begin and end one hour later for the period between the second Sunday in March
and the first Sunday in April, and for the period between the last Sunday in October
and the first Sunday in November."
If I understand this correctly, you should change your timer(s) to start at 1:00AM instead of 12:00 midnight for the next 3 weeks.