User avatar
DaveEV
Posts: 6249
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:23 pm

I got my SDG&E bill for the last couple months over the last couple days after getting the EV meter added to my NEM setup.

However, I noticed that the bill for the first partial month (May-June) with the EV meter did not appear to correctly subtract the Main B meter or the EV meter from the meter reading - instead counting the the Main B meter as my NET meter reading. So over the 5 days of that billing period with the new meters I lost about 60 kWh of generation credit. I used the SDG&E Energy Waves site to verify.

The full month (June-July) with the EV meter appears to be correct.

Anyone else have the same issue? I sent SDG&E a message with the details and my calcs.

User avatar
lonndoggie
Posts: 431
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:10 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1995
Location: Encinitas, CA (N. San Diego County)

Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:01 pm

drees, did you get an answer on your billing question?

I just got our latest SDG&E bills. Several new twists:

1. Gas and electric used to come in separate envelopes. This time, both were crammed into one.
2. The EV meter is included in the gas bill! There is a note that this is for services provided by the Department of Water Resources. Which seems very wrong.
3. The former EV electricity account seems to have died; the $.85 I'd paid previously for 5 days at $.17/day minimum fee is the only usage shown. However, that also shows in the gas bill.

What's more, I'm being billed for 10kWh for May 7-June 13 (the day before I got my car)--so nothing but the Blink was on that circuit. Seems fishy. The electric service is listed as using the EPEV-Residential rate, but still, I wonder if they think they're billing me for a water pump?

Anyone else's second meter end up like that, billing-wise?
Res: 4/20, RAQ: 10/1, Order: 10/7
EV Proj OK 9/17, install 4/19, 2nd meter 5/5
Pend > Apr/11 > 4/15 > 4/19 > 4/15 > 4/18 > 4/22 > 6/14 > 6/16 > 6/22
Delivered 6/15!!
VIN: 2494
Ocean Blue eTec
7.36kW DC PV Array

User avatar
DaveEV
Posts: 6249
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:53 am

lonndoggie wrote:drees, did you get an answer on your billing question?
Yes, I did. Talked to Matt (EV study guru) and Jennifer (Billing guru) - have one additional question that I'm waiting an answer for but they've been very responsive. Let me know if you want their contact details.
lonndoggie wrote:1. Gas and electric used to come in separate envelopes. This time, both were crammed into one.
2. The EV meter is included in the gas bill! There is a note that this is for services provided by the Department of Water Resources. Which seems very wrong.
My EV bill is combined with my gas bill, too. I believe this is done to keep the net-meter bill separate.
lonndoggie wrote:3. The former EV electricity account seems to have died; the $.85 I'd paid previously for 5 days at $.17/day minimum fee is the only usage shown. However, that also shows in the gas bill.
That seems wrong. My net-meter account has remained separate even though I got a new meter to go with the new EV meter.
lonndoggie wrote:What's more, I'm being billed for 10kWh for May 7-June 13 (the day before I got my car)--so nothing but the Blink was on that circuit. Seems fishy. The electric service is listed as using the EPEV-Residential rate, but still, I wonder if they think they're billing me for a water pump?
Yep, you definitely have something wonky going on.

User avatar
lonndoggie
Posts: 431
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:10 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1995
Location: Encinitas, CA (N. San Diego County)

Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:03 pm

Dave, I might want the contact info, but I've got an inquiry in; we'll see how that goes.

My call to the basic support line did reveal what you said about the gas and EV bills being combined--that net metering is kept separate, all others come in one bucket. That said, it was very odd that both bills (and the little net metering print-out) all came together in one jam-packed envelope this time!

Also, it appears that I've got the same issue you mentioned--they didn't subtract out the EV meter usage from the main meter. Energy Waves makes that abundantly clear.

What I'd said about the previous charge for the EV meter being included in this bill is OK, I suppose; they also included the $1.01 I'd paid online to cover it (the bill was $.85, but I had to enter at least $1.01), so all's good.

Also...since I've had now two billing cycles (one full one) with no usage of the circuit, I can see that the amounts -- $.85 and $5.44 -- are the minimum charge, $.17/day times the number of days (5 and 32 respectively). However, apparently the billing system tried to make up kWh usage numbers that make sense for that--that first period shows 1kWh of super off-peak, while the second shows 3 peak, 4 off-peak, and 2 super off-peak. Energy Waves shows zero.

So I'm left at this point with curiosities (why does it make up TOU usage numbers?), questions (is Energy Waves reasonably accurate?) and a billing problem (paying for energy pulled thru the EV meter twice).

Anyone else out there with net metering and the second meter? You might want to take a close look at those bills!
Res: 4/20, RAQ: 10/1, Order: 10/7
EV Proj OK 9/17, install 4/19, 2nd meter 5/5
Pend > Apr/11 > 4/15 > 4/19 > 4/15 > 4/18 > 4/22 > 6/14 > 6/16 > 6/22
Delivered 6/15!!
VIN: 2494
Ocean Blue eTec
7.36kW DC PV Array

GroundLoop
Posts: 1725
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:31 pm

Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:40 pm

My Net Metering bill has been wonky since the EVSE program started.
I seem stuck on "0" for Start and End read values, even though the meter should be racking up (negative) generation credits this time of year.

Note that the A/B/C readings on the meter face are USELESS at best, and misleading.
They do not represent the EPEV time-of-day totals at all. They are based on a different timer set that means nothing.

SDG&E reads the 15-minute interval data from both meters, subtracts the EVSE from House at each interval, and then bins the EVSE consumption into the EPEV time-of-use bands for that bill.

I'm having a hard time tracking my own TOU usage with this methodology. You really do have to read the 15-minute interval data to predict your bill. There is nothing on the meter face to help you.

User avatar
lonndoggie
Posts: 431
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:10 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1995
Location: Encinitas, CA (N. San Diego County)

Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:40 pm

GroundLoop wrote:My Net Metering bill has been wonky since the EVSE program started.
I seem stuck on "0" for Start and End read values, even though the meter should be racking up (negative) generation credits this time of year.
Yeah, that's another thing I brought up in my inquiry--the start/end readings (for the net meter, not the EVSE) are zero, yet they show the delta they computed via other means.
GroundLoop wrote: Note that the A/B/C readings on the meter face are USELESS at best, and misleading.
They do not represent the EPEV time-of-day totals at all. They are based on a different timer set that means nothing.
Haven't tried to read it, so I've avoided that pratfall.
GroundLoop wrote: SDG&E reads the 15-minute interval data from both meters, subtracts the EVSE from House at each interval, and then bins the EVSE consumption into the EPEV time-of-use bands for that bill.
Sounds OK to me. Except that this first bill with EVSE charges in the mix, I can see that didn't happen (the first part, the subtract; I don't have a bill for the EVSE meter yet where there was actually charging going on).
GroundLoop wrote: I'm having a hard time tracking my own TOU usage with this methodology. You really do have to read the 15-minute interval data to predict your bill. There is nothing on the meter face to help you.
Right, which is what I'm doing, via Energy Waves (https://energywave.sdge.com/), same as Dave. It's pretty easy, once you get the hang of it. Also using it, as mentioned above, to do a whole-year analysis of how moving to EV-TOU-2 would affect my bill.

Having them get that subtraction thing right is going to save me about $18 or so this bill, and more going forward (since this cycle didn't have charging every day).
Res: 4/20, RAQ: 10/1, Order: 10/7
EV Proj OK 9/17, install 4/19, 2nd meter 5/5
Pend > Apr/11 > 4/15 > 4/19 > 4/15 > 4/18 > 4/22 > 6/14 > 6/16 > 6/22
Delivered 6/15!!
VIN: 2494
Ocean Blue eTec
7.36kW DC PV Array

User avatar
DaveEV
Posts: 6249
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:43 pm

lonndoggie wrote:So I'm left at this point with curiosities (why does it make up TOU usage numbers?), questions (is Energy Waves reasonably accurate?) and a billing problem (paying for energy pulled thru the EV meter twice).
Energy Waves appears to be pretty accurate. The trick is to make sure you read the proper days. If your meter read dates are July 8 and Aug 8, for example, you should include all interval data from Energy Waves from Jul 9 - Aug 8, from what I understand.

User avatar
lonndoggie
Posts: 431
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:10 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1995
Location: Encinitas, CA (N. San Diego County)

Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:26 pm

drees wrote: Energy Waves appears to be pretty accurate.
I think/hope so, too. But the support folks have no idea about it, couldn't comment on the accuracy of it...not that that worries me much.
drees wrote: The trick is to make sure you read the proper days. If your meter read dates are July 8 and Aug 8, for example, you should include all interval data from Energy Waves from Jul 9 - Aug 8, from what I understand.
Ah--that probably explains why my numbers for the last billing cycle were about 10kWh higher than SDG&Es.
Res: 4/20, RAQ: 10/1, Order: 10/7
EV Proj OK 9/17, install 4/19, 2nd meter 5/5
Pend > Apr/11 > 4/15 > 4/19 > 4/15 > 4/18 > 4/22 > 6/14 > 6/16 > 6/22
Delivered 6/15!!
VIN: 2494
Ocean Blue eTec
7.36kW DC PV Array

User avatar
lonndoggie
Posts: 431
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:10 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1995
Location: Encinitas, CA (N. San Diego County)

Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:29 pm

My SDG&E billing concerns were unfounded. What confused me was getting two bills, one with gas and the EV meter (which is how it will be going forward), and one with just electricity--which I assumed was the house meter. It wasn't, it's the EV meter, for the next billing cycle after the other bill. The numbers were such that its total usage looks very close to the whole house usage plus EV usage, since the house usage was so small thanks to the PV system.

Now, however, I do have to wait for the next house meter bill and see if it's right. Fortunately, due to all the discussion and analysis, I know it's supposed to be for 11kWh--anything else and I'll be back on the phone. But I'm betting that won't have to happen.
Res: 4/20, RAQ: 10/1, Order: 10/7
EV Proj OK 9/17, install 4/19, 2nd meter 5/5
Pend > Apr/11 > 4/15 > 4/19 > 4/15 > 4/18 > 4/22 > 6/14 > 6/16 > 6/22
Delivered 6/15!!
VIN: 2494
Ocean Blue eTec
7.36kW DC PV Array

ENIAC
Posts: 649
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:05 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 224
Location: Sun Diego, CA USA

Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:00 pm

Well at least you guys are getting a bill. I haven't received a bill from SDG&E since the May billing period. I've emailed them and called CS twice. Basically EV ToU with net metering appears to have thrown their billing system for a loop. I have a spreadsheet with readings from both meters once a week back to Jan. So I know, within a couple of bucks, what the bill should be. We'll see...
Myths And Facts About Electric Cars

"The ice doesn't care"
-- WetEV

Return to “Utilities”