Valdemar
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Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Wed May 06, 2020 1:42 am

smkettner wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 5:51 pm
What rate plan are you going to? How do you verify rate expiration?

I am also on TOU-D-A-SDP
As the new TOU rates are clearly anti-solar it makes sense to just switch to the domestic tiered plan. I'm well within my baseline allocation for all but 2 months a year, it will be cheaper than any of the TOU plans they offer. I have a now abandoned EV meter, I plan to find out if they will let me run it on TOU-Prime just for EV usage without solar but unless we get a second EV it looks ilke just staying on one domestic rate on one meter is the most sensible option.

As for the rate expiration, it's 5 years from the date of getting the permission to operate but no later than some fixed date which is escaping me at the moment, something like July 2021 or maybe 2022?
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

Valdemar
Posts: 2664
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Wed May 06, 2020 10:38 am

Boomer23 wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 9:24 pm
I looked ahead to this juncture and decided to add more solar panels to combat this change. I wasn’t quick enough to get the new array installed before the end of 2019, so I’ll have to be happy with the current 26% federal credit instead of the 30% I would have gotten last year, but as you say, Oh Well.

I also penciled out adding batteries, but the solar project had a much better return.

Unfortunately, adding more solar will bump me from NEM 1.0 to NEM 2.0, which carries with it some “Non-Bypassable Charges” of about 2.5 cents per kWh for every kWh SCE sends me, regardless of whether I sent it to them first. 😡

So I’m planning to switch to TOU-D-Prime and charge my cars during the day “behind the meter” to avoid as many NBCs as possible. This is workable because Prime’s daytime rates are the same as the nighttime rates, and there are no lucrative high Peak daytime solar rates that I’ll be forgoing by using power during solar Peak.

With this plan, I should be able to keep my annual costs down to something like $350, but of course I had to pay a net nine or ten grand for the extra solar. There’s no free lunch,

...
In my case, staying on TOU will cost to the tune of $1k annually vs. basically $0 now, a bit less maybe with the baseline and climate credits. Counter-intuitively the TOD-D-PRIME appears to be the worst amongst others due to its high on-peak/off-peak ratio with limited solar output 4-9pm, lack of baseline credit and a daily charge. My annual net grid usage is around 3,000kwh and it will be mainly in tier 1, so I'm looking at $600-700 annually at the domestic rate which I think is a reasonable pill to swallow. I could offset it by adding 2kw to my system which would probably cost somewhere around 3-4k but I'd risk being forced on NEM2.0 so not worth the risk IMO given the 5-6 year payback. You can safely add up to 10% to the original system power rating under the NEM1.0 terms, so I could add 1kW but I don't think I will bother as it is not going to make much of a difference in the large scheme of things. Instead I'm going to look into minimizing usage in other areas, maybe it is the time I should consider a variable speed pool pump or additional attic insulation.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

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mwalsh
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Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Wed May 06, 2020 2:37 pm

I've been thinking about posting to this thread for a couple of days, after seeing it resurrected the last time.

My solar is still chugging along, 9.5 years later. Had expected the need to replace something would have occurred by now, most likely the inverter, but (touch wood) everything is still as it was installed in November 2010.

Even the production numbers are not off as much as I would told they might be. Or at least they are not off so much that I notice it.
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 86,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bosch AGM 12v
Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches

smkettner
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Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:48 pm

Annual net bill comes in at $205 in energy costs for consuming net 6,449 kWh from the SCE grid. About 3.2 cents per kWh. :D
Not sure how any of the coming TOU rate changes might affect the cost. Going to ride this one more year if I can.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

danrjones
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Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:37 pm

I think I am in a similar situation. I am in TOU-A and I can see it costing a huge amount if they switch me. My solar will be almost useless from 4 to 9pm. I had noticed I was on a grandfathered plan but I did not know they were kicking us off!

Power wall sounds great to use from 4 to 9 but they are still too expensive.

I also thought about west facing additional solar but I i had not heard it would change my Net Meetering contract.

Bummer.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

Valdemar
Posts: 2664
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
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Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:23 am

I'm 5y + 1mo after the PTO was issued and they still haven't switched me over. I read somewhere they may let us run until the end of 2020 on those plans, longer for those who got PTO just before the switchover was decided. Those who leased might end up upside down with their contracts. For those who bought the rate change will reduce the ROI but solar should still provide benefit. NEM1 customers have an option to switch to the tiered domestic plan which should be a better/fairer option than the new TOU. I suspect many do not realize this change is coming.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

danrjones
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Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:54 pm

SCE has a rate comparison tool but does it let me see what NEM 2.0 would cost?

Being the tax deduction is sunsetting fast, if I want more solar, this year seems like the time to do it. How much more does NEM 2 actually cost?

I switched to TOU-a because at that time it was much cheaper than tiered. But maybe NEM 2 with a second solar system and switching back to tiered is the best option.

I can I install a 4 to 5 KW system for around 4 to 6k if I do it myself, which was the plan.

Powerwall is much more expensive. So i do not see better options?
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

Valdemar
Posts: 2664
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:45 pm

danrjones wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:54 pm
SCE has a rate comparison tool but does it let me see what NEM 2.0 would cost?

Being the tax deduction is sunsetting fast, if I want more solar, this year seems like the time to do it. How much more does NEM 2 actually cost?

I switched to TOU-a because at that time it was much cheaper than tiered. But maybe NEM 2 with a second solar system and switching back to tiered is the best option.

I can I install a 4 to 5 KW system for around 4 to 6k if I do it myself, which was the plan.

Powerwall is much more expensive. So i do not see better options?
You can't be on the tiered plan under NEM-2, it's TOU only. Another difference is the non-bypassable charges (NBCs) for grid usage, which means you pay 2-3c for every kWh you take from the grid e.g. nighttime EV charging, unlike NEM-1 these cannot be offset by credits.

Given a single meter SCE will likely force you on NEM-2 for the whole system if you add in excess of the 10% allowed by your NEM agreement but you should talk to them to make sure, who knows maybe they will let you stay on NEM-1.

The comparison tools SCE provides are primitive. If you want to understand the economics of different rates/NEM-1/2 you need to download your annual usage hourly details and model the cost using new TOU rates and NEM-2 NBCs, you can do it with Excel. Very roughly NEM-2 and new TOU rates is about 20% worse than NEM-1/TOU-D-A, in other words if you annual bill was $4,000 before solar and your system is sized well with no overproduction and you end up with $0 or close credit balance at the end of each NEM-1 period, expect the annual bill to be $800-$1000 on NEM2/new TOU.

I don't think there is a good option. Under new rates you basically have to oversize the system to fully offset your bill. SCE used to have a rule that didn't allow that, perhaps it changed. Staying on NEM-1 with your current system and switching to tiered is likely the most sensible thing you can do, maybe add 10% power to it if you can do it yourself to keep the costs low and be within the allowed increase per your NEM agreement. Bad days for solar are here.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

danrjones
Posts: 692
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:30 pm

Thank you

My initial system was only 3.15 KW DC so 10% more would be 315 watts. That wont help much.

If only the power wall was about 1/3 the cost. If you add one do you stay on NEM 1? It's not adding solar, so my thought was yes.

I guess my option is to over size. It's the cheapest option if I do the work myself. But I'll have to look at the numbers.

Actually there is one more option. Do the work and do not tell SCE. Think they would notice me suddenly sending a bunch more power to the grid? The city might get grumpy though with no permit.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

Valdemar
Posts: 2664
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:46 pm

Adding a Powerwall may call for a new inverter. No idea how adding a Powerwall affects your NEM agreement.

I did think about adding bootleg capacity in excess of 10%. It might go unnoticed, or not. Analyzing meter reported data to detect increase in production is not difficult. Hard to say how strict SCE is going to be if they find out, but chances are they will at least switch you over to NEM2.

Doing it without permits, I don't think City will find out, unless there's a fire directly related to solar, which is not unheard of, then you're going to have an interesting conversing with the City and your insurance.

For myself I think it's not worth the risk, but everyone has different sensitivity to risk, it may be perfectly acceptable from your perspective.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

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