glemieux
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Your decision to go E-9B (with PG&E)?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:28 pm

I'm starting this post as a measure to ease my anxiety in deciding to have a second meter installed and move on to the E-9B rate. I haven't seen much in the way of people who have enrolled in E-9B commenting on their specific situation. Far more people seem to have commented on being in E-9A or E-1, than E-9B, which would seem to make sense if PG&E's comments in the recent rate change analysis (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... &hilit=E9B" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) are true (only 35 customers on E-9B; Perhaps none of them post here?). That said, if you're on E-9B I'd love to hear what your situation is and what brought you to that decision. I'd love to hear if others have seen similar analysis even if your situation was better on E-9A or E-1.

Here's my situation: I live in Berkeley in PG&E Tier Group T with it's very low baseline rates. My small family (wife, myself and child) stay below baseline on E-1 in summer (~85% of BL) and occasionally peek above baseline in winter. We don't have many devices that put a big power load on our electrical like a TV. Our house isn't well situated at all for solar. We picked up an 2011 orphan from Redwood City and it's my wife's main commuting vehicle at ~ 30 miles/weekday (I luckily can commute to work via bike). We've been approved for EVSE through the EVProject and we're awaiting the final quote from the electrician for installing the second meter (off the cuff remark was $1500 above what Ecotality will subsidize, which we can swing). I built my own spreadsheet to calculate the costs and with how little energy we use (aside from the EV) and how much the EV gets used, the E-9B rate just makes way more sense. At an $85 average price difference between E-9A and B (assuming charging 8-10 kWh on the overnight) that pays off the initial cost in 17 months.

Am I missing something here or are we just a little out of the ordinary, perhaps like those other 35 customers? I'm getting anxious as both PG&E and the electrician have made noises that E-9A should "work just fine for you" even though they haven't explicitly looked at my house and EV usage.

I haven't checked out what happens when I apply the rates that PG&E is suggesting. Going to do that now. This is getting tiresome. I *might* not have gone with an EV had I known there was this much rigamarole.
Last edited by glemieux on Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2011 Nissan Leaf SL, Number: 9700
Redwood City Boardwalk Orphan, Nov 2011
Blink EVSE, PG&E, January 2012

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DeaneG
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Re: Your decision to go E-9B (with PG&E)?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:47 pm

In my experience PG&E's recommendations are for an average household and have little in common with your own situation. I'd stick with your own math.

One thing to be aware of is that there is no guarantee that E9B rates will be available for the long term - the off-peak rates are below PG&E's marginal cost of generation, and they are trying to fix that. You may be safe enough if you only need 17 months to pay off the second meter installation.
White SL w/L3, 3kWDC Solar PV

oakwcj
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Re: Your decision to go E-9B (with PG&E)?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:25 pm

I think that you should assume that PG&E's proposal for a flat E-9B rate will be approved by the CPUC. The Commission directed PG&E to eliminate baselines and tiers for E-9B. Assuming that you do all your charging during off-peak periods, it is a very simple calculation to make. You will be paying $.11 per kWh. Who knows when the new rates, if approved, will go into effect? It may take you a bit longer than 17 months to break even, but it still seems that it will be a good deal for you.
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glemieux
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Re: Your decision to go E-9B (with PG&E)?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:26 pm

DeaneG wrote:In my experience PG&E's recommendations are for an average household and have little in common with your own situation. I'd stick with your own math.
Thanks for the vote of confidence :).
DeaneG wrote:One thing to be aware of is that there is no guarantee that E9B rates will be available for the long term - the off-peak rates are below PG&E's marginal cost of generation, and they are trying to fix that. You may be safe enough if you only need 17 months to pay off the second meter installation.
I re-ran the numbers with PG&E's recommendation to PUC for non-Tiered E-9 rate (A&B have same rates in their recommendation) and the savings is a flat $20 no matter what our EV usage. So long as we don't go installing a huge plasma TV or AC systems, it does seem, as you point out, that we should be good as long as the rate doesn't change too soon.
2011 Nissan Leaf SL, Number: 9700
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Blink EVSE, PG&E, January 2012

glemieux
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:55 pm
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Re: Your decision to go E-9B (with PG&E)?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:31 pm

oakwcj wrote:I think that you should assume that PG&E's proposal for a flat E-9B rate will be approved by the CPUC. The Commission directed PG&E to eliminate baselines and tiers for E-9B.
Yeah, I think that's a good assumption. I'm hoping I can just eek out a bit of time before the change gets instated. The way I look at it I'm better off in E-9B no matter what, unless they institute some major change in policy, like supporting subtractive metering. But I'm guessing by the time they get to that, even at $20 difference the second baseline will have paid itself off :lol: .
2011 Nissan Leaf SL, Number: 9700
Redwood City Boardwalk Orphan, Nov 2011
Blink EVSE, PG&E, January 2012

DougMarker
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Re: Your decision to go E-9B (with PG&E)?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:18 pm

glemieux,
The reason people don't do E9B is because in most situations it costs many thousands to get the second meter installed. Additionally, many city and county codes won't allow a second meter even if PG&E is willing (That's my situation.) My E9A seems like it saves quite a bit of money, and it cost nothing to switch from E1.

ILETRIC
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Location: Marin County

Re: Your decision to go E-9B (with PG&E)?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:30 pm

Expect nothing from PG&E. They want to make money and don't care about anything else just like any other corporate entity in the US, let alone our Leafing around one way or the other.

My electrical bill topped at $400 the first month with the Leaf on board. I have 2 ACs (split level house). I'm on E7 (no longer available with off peak top rate of 25 cents per kW).

My plan is 8-9 kW Solar Shingles (DOW Powerhouse) as soon as they come out. I'm adding another EV as soon as it's out (Honda or Infinity). My usage will go up to at least 500 bucks a month, perhaps 600. The solar will generate almost twice the juice I need and the system will be paid off in about 3 years. My bill will be ZERO.

I'm driving, ACing, refrigerating, TV watching and lighting all for free using 100% green juice. It doesn't get any better than that. Solong PG&E. Thank you for the night juice and line maintenance.
------------------------------------------------
1st bar lost at 38,700 miles/22 months
2nd bar lost at 45,750 miles/27 months

Traded-in on 10-19-2014 at 56,150 miles
-------------> for Kia Soul EV+ <-------------

glemieux
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:55 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Mar 2012

Re: Your decision to go E-9B (with PG&E)?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:10 pm

ILETRIC wrote:I'm driving, ACing, refrigerating, TV watching and lighting all for free using 100% green juice. It doesn't get any better than that. Solong PG&E. Thank you for the night juice and line maintenance.
Yeah, I really wish that my house was better situated for solar as I would invest in that at the drop of a hat. I really didn't give it consideration when I purchased the house. I look at the few houses in our area with south facing roofs with envy. My west facing roof is angled slightly towards south, but alas, my neighbor's 3 big poplars and gigantic eucalyptus to the west aren't coming down any time soon (and being a former tree guy I'm not sure I want anything but the euk to be taken down).

That said I've kicked around getting a pole mounted system in the northeast corner of my lot that is sunlit for most of the day. I'm betting that the ROI on a small pole mounted system is horrendous. Maybe, I'll go look around the solar section of this forum...
Last edited by glemieux on Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2011 Nissan Leaf SL, Number: 9700
Redwood City Boardwalk Orphan, Nov 2011
Blink EVSE, PG&E, January 2012

glemieux
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:55 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Mar 2012

Re: Your decision to go E-9B (with PG&E)?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:15 pm

DougMarker wrote:glemieux,
The reason people don't do E9B is because in most situations it costs many thousands to get the second meter installed. Additionally, many city and county codes won't allow a second meter even if PG&E is willing (That's my situation.) My E9A seems like it saves quite a bit of money, and it cost nothing to switch from E1.
Doug, do you live in the SF bay area? I was curious about this too, but Alameda county and Berkeley city OK'd it. What with the Bay Area Strategic EV council and CARB being so gung ho about EVs in the Bay area, I'd be surprised if other counties/cities were against a second meter. That said, I guess I shouldn't be surprised when different municipal parties/department don't agree :roll: .
2011 Nissan Leaf SL, Number: 9700
Redwood City Boardwalk Orphan, Nov 2011
Blink EVSE, PG&E, January 2012

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Your decision to go E-9B (with PG&E)?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:44 pm

No second meter in SF, they think you will have an illegal apartment in your garage. Not that the inspector would notice the difference between an EVSE and an apartment :roll: If PGE changes their rates as feared I may go for E-9C, "C" as in chop off my meter and wire it direct.

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