Any V2G or V2H charger available yet for US?

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My 16kw outback radians allows up to 2 AC inputs. I had considered hooking the leaf to a charge controller but I was told that wont work by a midnite solar tech. A V2H inverter would have been my second AC input (usually a generator). I upgraded my simpliphi batteries to 8 100aH chinese rack batteries. At 48v using 80% capacity, these new rack batteries give me over 32kwH of storage. I'm set so I'm not going to invest in a v2h charger when available. 26usd meter fee is still way cheaper and convenient than a 3000usd 3kw inverter from alibaba.

I did install a 30a level 2 charger but do try to limit L2 charging as its slightly harder on the leaf bats. I put the circuit on a digital intermatic timer so its only available to charge from 8am to 4pm. I also piggybacked a 110v off the same timer box and use it primarily.

Speaking of intermatic timers, I put another one on my hottub. It comes on at 11am and does its filter cycle, then I shut it off at noon and turn it back on at 12:05pm and does its second filter cycle and runs normally until 11pm when I shut it off for the night (an hour before it would want to do another filter cycle). That way it does all its heavy lifting during the peak solar harvest and rarely taxes the batteries. This works because its balboa / waterway? brained tub. My old calspa in Colorado runs for about 5 hours when the power goes out and comes back on (which is nuts).
 
goldbrick said:
Is your PV system grid-tie or stand alone? A grid-tie system will not generate any power if the grid is down regardless of whether it is connected to a house or a Leaf. If this is intended for disaster preparedness then some type of hybrid system that is grid-tied but can be run off-grid will be needed. The Leaf could be the 'battery' assuming you have a capable V2H setup. I'd imagine you would need to use a L2 EVSE to charge the car off the PV and then switch to V2H for the night time.

Thanks for the follow up. It will be a grid-tie system. The part of the post above I highlighted is exactly what I am after.

Putting the price aside wouldn't a Wallbox Quasar bi-directional charger work in this case with the Leaf? I am also aware that I would need a smart switch to separate the grid from my house electrical system once there is a blackout for safety purposes.
 
curro said:
To my research here are some options for bi-directional charging now or in the near future:

1) Hoping Solaredge latest HD Wave inverter/hub will support bi-directional charging with a firmware update in the near future. This is not for sure but something to find out more about through my solar panel installer. Cost: $2K to $3K range
The latest I've understood from Solaredge is that their "storage" based system (StoreEdge) are certainly bidirectional and do allow battery backup to the home (with their battery systems). Don't know if they are even working on a CHAdeMO or CCS EV based V2G/V2H connection - I'd sure like to know because they are quite a good manufacture IMO.
2) dcbel r16 solar inverted/bi-directional charger combo. This would be my ideal choice but not available in my area yet and no timeline to my knowledge. Cost: $5K
Yes, I also am following dcbel as they are the only full system that claims to support V2G and "blackout" - their version of V2H.
3) Wallbox Quasar bidirectional home DC charger. Available now but the priciest of all so far at $4K just for the charger!
I believe this is just a grid tied bidirectional converter and will not support any V2H without some DIY electronics to "fake" the grid (and transfer automatically)!. Could be wrong on this one, so would want Wallbox to fully explain any limitations.
4) Nuvve upcoming residential bi-directional EV charger. Cost: ?. I have sent them an email to find out more.
Having worked with Nuvve for 3 years, they could be a good competitor to dcbel - but not ready yet.
5) Fermata Energy’s V2X systems. Cost: ?. I have sent them an email to find out more.
Let me know what Fermata can offer - did not think they make any hardware, but never really pursued.
 
My utility required a physical (and lockable) disconnect on my grid-tied system. It seems like there more 'hybrid' gird-tied/stand-alone options available now but be sure to check with your local utility before committing to one to make sure they are OK with it.
 
Thank you for the replies from KeithBriggs, DougWantsALeaf, Marktm (greetings also from the Greater Houston area) and goldbrick. I have not heard about the Outback radians inverter brand. I will look further and ask my installer. I presume one way to 'future proof' my PV system is to set it up in a way to have an input for a future gas generator but instead figure a way to take the electrons from the Leaf and feed it to the system through this inverter input. Food for thought :|

Ok so CHAdeMO is going away. Alright, lets say in 2022 I buy a used 2017 Leaf and I charge it mostly at home with a bi-directional charger (brand/model TBD). Is there a worry/risk if I want to keep the car another seven or eight years or more in terms of charging outside the home around a city?

Speaking of the Wallbox Quasar, they state here https://wallbox.com/en_us/quasar-dc-charger that it supports also V2H:

Wallbox Quasar was engineered to transform electric vehicles into powerful energy sources. The bidirectional charging technology lets you charge and discharge your EV, allowing you to power your home or the grid with your car battery. With Quasar, your EV battery is not just for driving, it also gives you extra energy to power your life.
 
Cool new stuff. Thanks all for sharing.

Since I am providing my own storage, I'm not going to involve my electric company. They are all pretty consistently CYA and doing everything they can (covertly) to hinder cooperation. Unlike Japan where they sing the cooperation chorus.

I would prefer that the grid constantly rectifies and keeps the car charged and the inverter part of the bi-directional unit supplies (critical) AC loads to the house from the car. Its not dissimilar to one of the outback modes. Outbacks wont work without batteries. Outback has the knowledge but not the will to adopt V2H. They were painfully slow adopting lithium as a battery source!

If a generac can click on in one cycle and click off once it sees grid power, the bidirectional inverter could/should/would be able do the same. Its simply an automatic transfer switch.

If we have a LEAF we have a rectifier in our garage for charging the car already. All we really need is an inverter to covert back to 240v AC and a manual transfer switch. We do have to manage/monitor our consumption while running off the car. The car becomes our silent generator. It's simple but its manual. It would run the critical loads of the house while the grid is down. It could also be an AC input source to an existing PV system.
 
curro said:
Speaking of the Wallbox Quasar, they state here https://wallbox.com/en_us/quasar-dc-charger that it supports also V2H:

Wallbox Quasar was engineered to transform electric vehicles into powerful energy sources. The bidirectional charging technology lets you charge and discharge your EV, allowing you to power your home or the grid with your car battery. With Quasar, your EV battery is not just for driving, it also gives you extra energy to power your life.

Curro - If you talk with a tech person at Wallbos, you should ask them if "power your home" will allow a CHAdeMO or CCS connected EV to provide energy to your home when the grid is down. They will then have to explain how they provide a transfer device and subpanel set up to do so. My experience has been that what they are saying is the when the grid is up, you have the option of using the battery to "power" your house rather than taking "power" from the grid. This is similar to NOT explaining the truth about grid tied inverters (not hybrids) - that they cannot provide energy to your home when the grid is down - a major disappointment to many for many years!
 
Marktm said:
curro said:
Speaking of the Wallbox Quasar, they state here https://wallbox.com/en_us/quasar-dc-charger that it supports also V2H:

Wallbox Quasar was engineered to transform electric vehicles into powerful energy sources. The bidirectional charging technology lets you charge and discharge your EV, allowing you to power your home or the grid with your car battery. With Quasar, your EV battery is not just for driving, it also gives you extra energy to power your life.

Curro - If you talk with a tech person at Wallbos, you should ask them if "power your home" will allow a CHAdeMO or CCS connected EV to provide energy to your home when the grid is down. They will then have to explain how they provide a transfer device and subpanel set up to do so. My experience has been that what they are saying is the when the grid is up, you have the option of using the battery to "power" your house rather than taking "power" from the grid. This is similar to NOT explaining the truth about grid tied inverters (not hybrids) - that they cannot provide energy to your home when the grid is down - a major disappointment to many for many years!

Good pointa Marktm. Thanks!
 
Ok, so today I talked with my installer and I have more specifics to share. The PV system for my house will be based on the Solaredge inverter model SE10000H-US + optimizers so there will be plenty of room to grow if needed in the future (the 5.6 kW system is being designed around 14 monocrystalline panels @ 405w). He said that Solaredge is already doing beta testing in California with new firmware for their HD-Wave inverters to allow for bi-directional charging on an EV like the Nissan Leaf.

So I am hopeful that in about a year or so this will become a reality in other states including Texas.
 
curro;
Please do get them to explain any functionality of V2H (AFTER the grid goes down) that they are planning with the EV based bidirectional energy flow. This is the more difficult functionality that only dcbel seems to currently offer. Again, I'd wait for SolarEdge to offer this as they are a well recognized solar inverter provider.
Thanks,
Mark
 
Curro, I went digging into my emails to see what Todd @Midnite said because I wanted a DC to DC conversion rather than a DC back to AC back to DC conversion. I was thinking my LEAF batteries were more like a solar panel rather than an AC input (after conversion). Hawke's back is BIG charge controller.

This is what Todd said.
If I understand your inquiry correctly, you CANNOT connect a battery source to the input of the Hawke’s Bay. Sorry.
and i asked why, he followed up:
Its like a short across the battery itself, except the PV input circuit sees it. Boom!

I've never seen a normal LEAF charger at home use the chademo plug. I could see you having it plugged in and charging with your roof during the day and the chademo plugged in to the reverse charger as an AC input into your PV inverter. On the Outback, you set it as priority AC input and grid as secondary. I don't know if you can charge and discharge at the same time. I hear what appears to be some kind of a relay when you start charging. To avoid both options happening simultaneously, you likely need one or two timers.

An 8k charger is 33a (8000w / 240v). If I remember right, my L2 car charger pulls in 6500w or 27a which is almost 82% of an 8k invert's capacity. That leaves just 6a or or just 720w at 120v for the rest of the house while your are charging L2. In my mode, outback pulls from batteries first, then when too low, connects to grid. I rarely connect to the grid. If your PV system is using lithium batteries, I would pull from them at first then connect to car then during the day, say with a timer, charge your car with a timer from 10 to 11 and 1 to 2 which would be 13kwh max each day. Assuming you have an 8k inverter, you can't use another heat source during that time (microwave included.) Between your PV batteries and your car batteries. You should almost never need to connect to the grid. Also, if you go with Lead based PV batteries, I would pull from the car first and grid second and just use the acid based batteries if the car runs out and the grid is down. In outback terms I think its called backup mode.

The timers I use are Intermatic ET1125C which have gone up in price in the last year. All mine are Nema 3 and the nema 1 are now as much as L3 enclosures but I love the. The never loose time with a battery backup.
 
Marktm said:
curro;
Please do get them to explain any functionality of V2H (AFTER the grid goes down) that they are planning with the EV based bidirectional energy flow. This is the more difficult functionality that only dcbel seems to currently offer. Again, I'd wait for SolarEdge to offer this as they are a well recognized solar inverter provider.
Thanks,
Mark

Yes, I agree, definitively this is an crucial point. In the PV lingo is called ''island grid management". I am going to inquire further with my installer.
 
Marktm and the rest, here is the product that I am inquiring about (SE7600H-US) right now. It will have a premium to pay vs the current planned Solaredge inverter SE10000H-US:

https://www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/se-single-phase-energy-hub-inverter-prism-technology-datasheet-na.pdf
 
I like the SE11400H-US. I have my inverters output set to 234v which give you some additional amperes. Micro inverters are slick. Remember the more capacity your inverter is the bigger your battery bank needs to be to be able to draw from and charge to.
 
This FAQ is leaving me in suspense, please Solaredge make it happen!

https://www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/energy_hub_and_backup_interface_faqs.pdf

Q: Can we use a bi-directional meter from auto-makers to support
V2H (Vehicle to Home) charging?
A: Not yet. We are waiting for auto manufacturers to support this and it
looks like it is coming soon. This may just be a firmware upgrade—stay
tuned for updates.
 
I'm not following that. LEAF already allows it. Any bi-directional charger along with a double throw switch (grid-in -/- car-in) to the inverter ac source would do. You would not need the double throw for an outback radian since they have two AC inputs.
 
KeithBriggs said:
I'm not following that. LEAF already allows it. Any bi-directional charger along with a double throw switch (grid-in -/- car-in) to the inverter ac source would do. You would not need the double throw for an outback radian since they have two AC inputs.

I guess what I am looking at also is what option will give me the 'best bang for the money' in the near term future.

Option 1) Go with the planned Solaredge inverter model SE10000H-US (so no premium to pay to my installer as it is already in the contract agreement) and then next year add the Wallbox Quasar bi-directional EV charger (https://wallbox.com/en_catalog/quasar-dc-charger) for something like $4,000 and expect that my installer will work the magic for everything to work well together, meaning when I lose power from the grid and the Nissan Leaf is connected to the EV charger I will get power from the car battery and the lights will come back on and so forth.

Option 2) Pay my installer some premium (hopefully no more than a few hundred dollars) to get the the SolarEdge Energy Hub inverter model SE7600H-US (reference https://www.solaredge.com/us/the-solaredge-energy-hub-solution) and next year wait for the firmware update so that I can purchase the Solaredge EV charger (https://www.solaredge.com/us/products/ev-chargers/smart-ev-charger#/ for around $750 or so) to be bi-directional by that time and fully integrated with the Solaredge SE7600H-US.
 
Option 2 deals with just one manufacturer. The 750 + (say) 250 vs 4000 buys a fair amount of emergency electricity for a year or so.
 
KeithBriggs said:
Option 2 deals with just one manufacturer. The 750 + (say) 250 vs 4000 buys a fair amount of emergency electricity for a year or so.

Agree. I would prefer not to have to get the Wallbox Quasar EV charger. I am thinking from a warranty perspective option 2 would be better.

Yesterday I found this thread https://diysolarforum.com/threads/portable-ev-battery-in-working-car-used-as-home-backup-power.14970/ which lead me to find additional relevant links such as:

https://www.emobilitysimplified.com/2019/12/what-is-vehicle-to-grid-v1g-v2g-v2x-v2h.html
https://www.chademo.com/products/v2x-product/

In the second link above the Wallbox Quasar is touted as a V2G charger and not V2H. The V2H chargers shown such as the Delta V2X are very Japan/Asian-centric and not US.
 
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