Installing Level 2 at Home (SOOW vs. NM-B) Which one?

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LeftieBiker said:
Can you suggest a good, reasonably priced torque screwdriver? I have to replace a breaker shortly. I may as well check the torque of the connections every time I work somewhere in the vast bowl of electric spaghetti that is our house.
My experience is limited. I got a Neiko from Amazon and have had no reason to complain (but am not a particularly informed user). Wiha seems like a good brand but is quite a bit more.

You can go through and retorque all the connections at the various specified torques (depending on wire size), and you'll find anything that was loose. Anything that moves just a little may have already be torqued to spec. And anything that doesn't move may have been torqued to spec, or may be overtightened, you'll have no way of knowing.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
pr0lab said:
I have one spot left that I can run a jumper wire from to this new bus.
If you confirm the following are all true:

- All neutrals are terminated as a single wire in one hole.
- The panel label specifies that EGCs may be terminated as (2) #12 or (2) #14 in one hole.
- All EGCS are terminated as a single wire in one hole, except possibly some pairs of #12s or #14s.
- There are at least (2) #12 or (2) #14 EGCs currently terminated as single wires.

Then your simplest option is to take one of the single #12 or #14 EGCs, pair it with another currently single EGC of the same size, and put those both in the same hole. That will give you a second open spot, so you can terminate both your new neutral and EGC individually.

Other questions:

- What are the torque specifications for the terminal bars and the breaker terminals, and the 14-50 receptacle, and what torque screwdriver did you get?
- Did you get a 50 amp GFCI double pole breaker?
- Did you get a weatherproof box for your 14-50 receptacle, along with an "extra duty" weatherproof while in use cover for it? Or perhaps instead a self-contained 3R "RV power outlet box"?

Cheers, Wayne

- All neutrals are terminated as a single wire in one hole. -->> No, there are 2 holes with 2 neutral wires terminated together in one hole
- The panel label specifies that EGCs may be terminated as (2) #12 or (2) #14 in one hole. -->> I could not find the label with specifications on the panel it's not too old but I it's not from recent years (was installed by previous house owner probably around 2011). The panel is "Murray UL Class-CTL # DD-832204"
- All EGCS are terminated as a single wire in one hole, except possibly some pairs of #12s or #14s.
- There are at least (2) #12 or (2) #14 EGCs currently terminated as single wires. ->> yes, 2 #14 neutrals terminated together in one hole

- What are the torque specifications for the terminal bars and the breaker terminals, and the 14-50 receptacle, and what torque screwdriver did you get? --> 35 in. lb. for the breaker but couldn't find the specs for receptacle. I have a wrench that I am using to do it, it converts to 3 ft. lb. of torque.
- Did you get a 50 amp GFCI double pole breaker? This is the one -> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens...PF-GFCI-Circuit-Breaker-US2-QF250AP/206965332 that works with my Murray panel.
- Did you get a weatherproof box for your 14-50 receptacle, along with an "extra duty" weatherproof while in use cover for it? Or perhaps instead a self-contained 3R "RV power outlet box"? ->>
yes, waterproof box with 14-50 receptacle https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082TV9B99/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

Thanks, based on that I think it make sense to move a 2 neutrals to 2 holes with a single neutral wire and free up 2 holes (1 for neutral and 1 for ground)
 
A related question please:
I want to install a NEMA 4 outside charger but the nearest 240V position on my house is more than 30 feet from where I park my Leaf. I think that's too far for charging cable. Not to mention a hassle to drag the coupler out there every time (I live in snow country in the NE)
Burying it under my wife's garden has it's challenges too, in particular setting up warning markers to prevent danger from future digging.

I could bury an underground line along the road from the main outlet big green box that brings all our community's power from the road (all buried installations, no power lines for the 11 structures here). Would that likely involved a new service from the power company? It would be a 50-60 foot run underground to where I'd mount the charging station.

Thanks for any thoughts!
 
Get a J-1772 extension cable, and make a cable minder and holster for it where you'd want a charging station. Use a plastic box, waterproofed, to protect the connection point with the EVSE cable. That should do exactly what you want. Choose an EVSE with a 20 or 25 foot cable, and I believe the extension cable will provide the additional 10+ feet. I'd also make a 5-sided plastic box to protect the J-1772 plug when it's in the holster.

This is what I'm talking about. I'm not endorsing this particular extension.

https://smile.amazon.com/Lectron-J1...+extension+cable+J-1772&qid=1638656155&sr=8-5

618YB4Q+UsL._AC_UL480_QL65_.jpg
 
I would dig a deep trench under the garden. You can use RIGID conduit for that part for extra protection
 
SageBrush said:
I would dig a deep trench under the garden. You can use RIGID conduit for that part for extra protection
Plus one on this. With RMC the conduit only needs 6" of soil cover. And getting an additional service to avoid 30+ ft of trenching is not a reasonable tradeoff.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
SageBrush said:
I would dig a deep trench under the garden. You can use RIGID conduit for that part for extra protection
Plus one on this. With RMC the conduit only needs 6" of soil cover. And getting an additional service to avoid 30+ ft of trenching is not a reasonable tradeoff.

One thing though ...
the metal conduit has to be grounded. When I did this, I brought RMC into a liquid tight J-box and used a ground lug instead of a regular lock-nut, and then brought a segment of ground wire out to a a grounding electrode.

I suggested a deep trench so that the gardener does not hack into the conduit. I doubt it would faze the conduit, but it would jar the gardener.
 
SageBrush said:
One thing though ...
the metal conduit has to be grounded. When I did this, I brought RMC into a liquid tight J-box and used a ground lug instead of a regular lock-nut, and then brought a segment of ground wire out to a a grounding electrode.
The metal conduit certainly has to be bonded. Doing that has nothing to do with a grounding electrode. And if the metal conduit is terminated normally to a bonded metal enclosure at either end, that's sufficient for bonding. [And if it's terminated normally to metal enclosures at each end, the metal conduit could be the EGC, rather than using a wire type EGC.]

A grounding electrode is optional for a structure supplied by a branch circuit.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
SageBrush said:
One thing though ...
the metal conduit has to be grounded. When I did this, I brought RMC into a liquid tight J-box and used a ground lug instead of a regular lock-nut, and then brought a segment of ground wire out to a a grounding electrode.
The metal conduit certainly has to be bonded. Doing that has nothing to do with a grounding electrode. And if the metal conduit is terminated normally to a bonded metal enclosure at either end, that's sufficient for bonding. [And if it's terminated normally to metal enclosures at each end, the metal conduit could be the EGC, rather than using a wire type EGC.]

A grounding electrode is optional for a structure supplied by a branch circuit.

I think I'm following. I used PVC J-boxes. Perhaps I should have used metal but I was told they had to be water tight
 
SageBrush said:
I think I'm following. I used PVC J-boxes. Perhaps I should have used metal but I was told they had to be water tight
OK, just confirming that you used a grounding bushing on at least one end of the RMC, and that the RMC had a wire type EGC inside connected to the grounding bushing. [Or you used grounding bushings at both ends of the RMC and the RMC was the EGC.] That's what's most important; the grounding electrode does not take the place of the EGC connection.

Cheers, Wayne
 
Thanks all.
Leftie, I like your solution, as usual you the man, thanks. Really don't want to bury anything if I can avoid it. If the J-1772 extension doesn't violate code or add risk shorting risk (I'll waterproof it), that'll work for me for the next year or two until I buy a new long-range EV as our set of distance wheels. Then I'll have a pro install a station where the car is parked and kick back/
 
wwhitney said:
SageBrush said:
I think I'm following. I used PVC J-boxes. Perhaps I should have used metal but I was told they had to be water tight
OK, just confirming that you used a grounding bushing on at least one end of the RMC, and that the RMC had a wire type EGC inside connected to the grounding bushing. [Or you used grounding bushings at both ends of the RMC and the RMC was the EGC.] That's what's most important; the grounding electrode does not take the place of the EGC connection.

First, thank you VERY much for your contributions.

You have me wondering now if my grounding will pass inspection. The install is for a ground mount PV installation:

My trench has a buried bare copper wire that is grounded to the panels, and to multiple grounding electrodes along its path until it terminates in the inverter box, which is itself separately grounded to an electrode.

I have two sections of IMC in the trench with a PVC J-box in between and at the far end. Each section of IMC terminates inside a PVC box with a grounding bushing on one end. A bare copper wire from the grounding bushing leaves the J-box and terminates at a grounding electrode. The IMC carries the PV wires. There are two IMC sections to accommodate two PV strings such that each string enters its own j-box.

IF I did this correctly (BIG IF), I have two grounding systems: one for the panels/inverter, and a second for the IMC. I sort of realize that I could have used the IMC as part of the grounding system. Hopefully I do not HAVE to. I didn't build that way for two reasons: one, because my PV installer buddy said that bare copper outside the conduit was a better grounding system for the PV; and second, because I used 0.5" IMC and another wire would have been difficult to pull (if even code.)
 
SageBrush said:
You have me wondering now if my grounding will pass inspection. The install is for a ground mount PV installation:
OK, I read through your description and some details are either absent or I missed them. If you want to describe your installation, a diagram would be easiest. Show each box and conduit labeled with size and type, the location and size of the inverters, the sizes and materials of the wires, and the breaker sizes and locations, on a one-line diagram.

But a couple general comments: Grounding is an overloaded term and refers to both bonding and earthing. Of those bonding is more important (critical).

You have a feeder running from the house (?) to your ground mount array. That feeder needs to have a bonding conductor, called an EGC. The EGC can be the metallic conduit itself, or it can be a wire type EGC inside the conduit. There's no allowance for running an EGC outside metal conduit. Whether or not you have a wire type EGC inside the conduit, any non-metallic box with more than one metal conduit section terminated at it should have those metal conduits bonded together with e.g. bonding bushings and a bonding jumper between them. The size of the bonding jumpers, and of a wire type EGC if present, depends on the size of the circuit breaker on the grid end of the feeder. If you have a wire type EGC and the ungrounded conductors are larger than the minimum size, then the wire type EGC also needs to be increased in size.

So if your feeder is AC (the inverters are at the ground mount), then that EGC runs all the way to the inverters and is connected to their cases and the bonding conductors going to the panels. If your feeder is DC (the inverters are at the house), then I'd need to research how you size a wire type EGC that accompanies them.

The bonding conductor has a single connection to the neutral service conductor at the service panel, and in all other places is kept separate from the neutral conductor (unless you have isolation transformers in your electrical system).

In addition to bonding, there's earthing, which is connecting a conductor to earth. At the service entrance, you earth the neutral service conductor by connecting it to some earthing electrodes (a GES, or grounding electrode system). The connecting conductor is called a GEC. At a separate structure, you re-earth the EGC (not the neutral) by connecting it to a local GES, via a local GEC. Any GEC that is within metal conduit needs to be bonded to the metal conduit at both ends of each conductively continuous section of metal conduit, to reduce the choke effect on the high frequency components of lightning strikes. And a conductor may be both an EGC and a GEC simultaneously, if it meets all the requirements of both.

The upshot is that your ground rods along the path of your conduit, and your bare conductor outside the conduit, would be a GES and GEC, respectively. They can get connected to the EGC in your feeder at the ground mount structure panel (assuming an AC feeder with inverters on the array). You are allowed to connect them to your EGC along the conduit run. But the GES and GEC are of secondary importance to the EGC, and they do not replace an EGC. In particular, if you removed the GES and GEC, you must still have an EGC in the feeder that connects the electrical equipment cases on the ground mount array back to the service.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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