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Re: Blink / Rav4 Blows Out a Contactor Pin (with gory pics)

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:36 pm
by LEAFfan
Ingineer wrote:Basically, if you get a big delta-T (say over 15 degrees F) between the 2 power pins on only a 16A load, you most definitely have a defective crimp!

-Phil
Which pins, EVSE's or the car's? What's the temp difference with the pins using a good Rema nozzle/Blink? Thanks!

Re: Blink / Rav4 Blows Out a Contactor Pin (with gory pics)

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:45 pm
by Ingineer
LEAFfan wrote:Which pins, EVSE's or the car's? What's the temp difference with the pins using a good Rema nozzle/Blink? Thanks!
Provided you do the measurement quickly, The temps are going to be almost the same whether you measure the handle or it's mating pin in the car, as they have good thermal conductivity. (Though it should be slightly hotter in the Rema handle side.) Measure between the top 2 large pins. If you see over 15 degrees difference between the left/right sides, you have a problem.

-Phil

Re: Blink / Rav4 Blows Out a Contactor Pin (with gory pics)

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:49 pm
by DoxyLover
Ingineer wrote:
LEAFfan wrote:Which pins, EVSE's or the car's? What's the temp difference with the pins using a good Rema nozzle/Blink? Thanks!
Provided you do the measurement quickly, The temps are going to be almost the same whether you measure the handle or it's mating pin in the car, as they have good thermal conductivity. (Though it should be slightly hotter in the Rema handle side.) Measure between the top 2 large pins. If you see over 15 degrees difference between the left/right sides, you have a problem.

-Phil
Phil-

I'd be leery of using the delta between the pins. What if BOTH have identically bad crimps? Shouldn't it be the delta between ambient and the highest pin?

Re: Blink / Rav4 Blows Out a Contactor Pin (with gory pics)

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:58 pm
by Ingineer
DoxyLover wrote:I'd be leery of using the delta between the pins. What if BOTH have identically bad crimps? Shouldn't it be the delta between ambient and the highest pin?
I did not say if you DON'T have a delta that you are fine, I simply stated that IF you have a delta then it positively indicates a problem. Calculating with ambient would need to take into account other factors, while the 2-pin delta is simple. If you follow the J1772 specs and your connector fails, then obviously you have a problem. I just don't want to quote some numbers out of context of the other factors and create a panic.

-Phil

Re: Blink / Rav4 Blows Out a Contactor Pin (with gory pics)

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:07 pm
by evnow
I should say - my delta between the 2 hot pins was quite low (1 or 2 degrees F). But Delta between them & the ambient/ground was high.

Re: Blink / Rav4 Blows Out a Contactor Pin (with gory pics)

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:29 pm
by LEAFfan
evnow wrote:I should say - my delta between the 2 hot pins was quite low (1 or 2 degrees F). But Delta between them & the ambient/ground was high.
So, according to Phil, yours has a good crimp?

Re: Blink / Rav4 Blows Out a Contactor Pin (with gory pics)

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:35 pm
by evnow
I think from Jim's post earlier, I'd say both are bad.

You see that the difference between L1 & L2 are similar for the ok Yazaki and the bad Rema.
Yazaki Plug

11.7 °C ambient temperature next to plug & inlet.

15.6 °C AC Power L1, delta T = 3.9 °C
14.5 °C AC Power L2, delta T = 2.8 °C

...

Next, the REMA plug connected to my Blink home EVSE model WE-30CIRE, S/N 101940 running at 16 Amps.

REMA Plug

5.5 °C ambient temperature next to plug & inlet.

17.5 °C AC Power L1, delta T = 12.0 °C
17.4 °C AC Power L2, delta T = 11.9 °C

Re: Blink / Rav4 Blows Out a Contactor Pin (with gory pics)

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:19 pm
by Ingineer
This is exactly what I was talking about! You cannot compare delta-T's to each other without ensuring all other factors are equal, such as:

1. Amperage through the connections.
2. Beginning ambient.
3. Ending ambient.
4. Elapsed time.

In addition, there will be differences from brand to brand, and tolerances within the same brand. That said, I do think Jim's Rema is bad, as not only did he have excessive rise on both pins at 16a, but also a significant delta between the pins.

The best test is to load the EVSE to it's maximum rating and continuously monitor temperature. If at any time it exceeds the spec, it's bad. Unfortunately, this is hard if not near impossible for most people to perform.

-Phil

Re: Blink / Rav4 Blows Out a Contactor Pin (with gory pics)

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:20 pm
by LEAFfan
I just charged for two hours with my 240V Blink, and the top left car pin was 80F, right was 81F. I guess the nozzle has a good crimp and can be safely used with a 2013.

Re: Blink / Rav4 Blows Out a Contactor Pin (with gory pics)

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:04 pm
by evnow
Ingineer wrote: That said, I do think Jim's Rema is bad, as not only did he have excessive rise on both pins at 16a, but also a significant delta between the pins.
Hmmm, isn't the difference between pins just 0.1 °C ? Am I reading that data wrong ... ?
17.5 °C AC Power L1, delta T = 12.0 °C
17.4 °C AC Power L2, delta T = 11.9 °C