palmermd
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Re: CHAdeMO-to-Tesla adapter?

Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:32 am

edatoakrun wrote: Are you really naïve enough to think TSLA expects the $ amount it now bundles into every vehicle sales price, to cover the costs of building and maintaining its DC charge network, and deliver unlimited kWh "forever"?
The current cars are paying for the charge stations...after the network is built out, the next car sales will pay for the solar and battery pack additions to the stations. Yes, sales of the Model S will pay for the build-out of the network and in return they will get charging for life. I don't believe that Model 3 will have the same offer. I expect that they will be charging for Model 3 owners to use the superchargers. $100k car gets prepaid charging, $50k car gets to pay for the energy consumed. Tesla has not stated any of this but this is just my own view of what they are doing and I think it makes perfect sense. More sense than thinking that Nissan will build out a ChaDeMo network without charging extra for the Leaf to pay for all this infrastructure (might as well ask Santa to build out the network). There is just not any return on investment for putting in ChaDeMo right now since there will not be enough use to pay for the installation. This is why Tesla is charging the one group who is willing to pay for the infrastructure, and that is people who can afford a $100k car.
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hill
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Re: CHAdeMO-to-Tesla adapter?

Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:40 am

Ya never know ... the lame companies that weren't wise enough to promote their plugin's - and thus have to pay a ton of dough to TESLA for their ZEV/carb credits ... maybe TESLA will use that money to build maintain their network. I'd LOVE to know how much they rake in on that.
.

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hill
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Re: CHAdeMO-to-Tesla adapter?

Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:42 am

dgpcolorado wrote:^Thanks for that. An acceleration of 1.2 G is a lot for a car!
BAAHHH !!! 'taint nothin'.

A funny car (consuming over 20 gallons on a 1/4 mile run) can pull over 4g's.
:o
.

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dgpcolorado
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Re: CHAdeMO-to-Tesla adapter?

Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:54 am

hill wrote:BAAHHH !!! 'taint nothin'.

A funny car (consuming over 20 gallons on a 1/4 mile run) can pull over 4g's.
:o
.
That's getting into rocket sled territory; I had no idea they could get anywhere near that high with just tire traction on the ground.

I tended to grey out over 4Gs pulling out of spins in a sailplane but that was with an upright seating position. A reclined seating position can improve that a lot. I presume that horizontal acceleration in a car would be much the same as a reclined seating position in an aircraft.
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edatoakrun
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Re: CHAdeMO-to-Tesla adapter?

Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:34 am

palmermd wrote: The current cars are paying for the charge stations...after the network is built out, the next car sales will pay for the solar and battery pack additions to the stations. Yes, sales of the Model S will pay for the build-out of the network and in return they will get charging for life. I don't believe that Model 3 will have the same offer. I expect that they will be charging for Model 3 owners to use the superchargers. $100k car gets prepaid charging, $50k car gets to pay for the energy consumed...

Tesla is charging the one group who is willing to pay for the infrastructure, and that is people who can afford a $100k car.
See reply at:

Business model of TSLA "free...forever" charge network

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 80#p419980" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
no condition is permanent

GetOffYourGas
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Re: CHAdeMO-to-Tesla adapter?

Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:09 pm

edatoakrun wrote:Do you actually believe TSLA expects the $ amount it now bundles into every vehicle sales price, to cover the costs of building and maintaining its DC charge network, and deliver unlimited kWh "forever"?
First of all, it's not "forever", it's for the lifetime of the car. So yes, I believe it's possible.

$2k for electricity at $0.12/kWh is 16,667 kWh. Even at 3 miles/kWh, that would drive a Model S 50k miles. If the life of the car is 200k miles, that's 25% of the miles coming from supercharging. I suspect it will be closer to 10% as a fleet average. In which case you are talking about a 500k mile life which is long for any car.

As mentioned, Tesla is planning on installing solar panels at many/most of their sites. Solar is already, in 2015, cheaper than grid electricity. Thus the solar power can drive a Model S even farther than 50k miles.

At the same time, I am also skeptical of whether the Model III will have unlimited prepaid access to the supercharger network. Personally I wouldn't mind paying for the electricity I use, in addition to a smaller access fee. Say $500 (1-time activation fee) + $0.25/kWh for usage. I never heard/read Musk claiming that all Teslas ever made would have lifetime access, only that all Model S' would.
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AlanSqB
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Re: CHAdeMO-to-Tesla adapter?

Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:54 pm

Superchargers are not just charging stations, they are marketing. They are the reason I have a Leaf now and aspire to own a Tesla when my lease is complete. I saw the ones up in Glenwood Springs and got curious about what they were and what they did. Got educated and bought an electric car.

They are also the reason that even if Nissan/VW/Mitsubishi come up with a 200+ mile car in the next few years, many will still buy Tesla. You can potentially buy the range, but you can't buy access to the supercharger network without the Tesla. I want to be able to drive to LA from here all electric. No other EV offering is going to allow that to happen.

I do agree that a $2000 option does not equal forever charging, but that's because calling SC access a $2000 option was a bad idea on T's part and why they have backed off from that. It's part of the car and part of the brand now like it always should have been and that's why it will be there "forever."
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bitflung
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Re: CHAdeMO-to-Tesla adapter?

Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:24 pm

AlanSqB wrote:Superchargers are not just charging stations, they are marketing. They are the reason I have a Leaf now and aspire to own a Tesla when my lease is complete.
here here
...They are also the reason that even if Nissan/VW/Mitsubishi come up with a 200+ mile car in the next few years, many will still buy Tesla. You can potentially buy the range, but you can't buy access to the supercharger network without the Tesla.
yup. look at the Bolt versus Model 3 right now:
- similar price tag
- similar range
- bolt will ship at least 1 year before model 3
- model 3 will have access to superchargers and chademo (via adapter plug)
- bolt has L2 and SAE Combo. period.

i don't know about anyone else, but in the Boston MA region there are plenty* of chademo and superchargers but only 2-3 SAE Combo chargers. Chevy has publicly stated that they aren't interested in investing in DCFC infrastructure at all, so early bolt drivers will have very little hope of finding a fast charger.

that's the magic right there. the biggest difference between the two: tesla invests in infrastructure and chevy claims that they won't.

nissan is right in the middle: they invest modestly in chademo infrastructure. better than nothing which means better than chevy... but nowhere near as good as tesla.

all the remaining difference between tesla and chevy products are contestable: i prefer the design of one over the other, one has greater production capacity and will likely ship ontime, one has started from a clean slate to take advantage of EV specific opportunities in design... etc etc. all noise in the end. the big picture is exactly as AlanSqB suggests: tesla has the supercharger network and THAT is significant.

it's the primary reason i plunked down $1k on a model 3 reservation rather than make plans to buy a bolt.
and nissan? i just might upgrade to a new leaf in 2 years rather than a model 3, but they had better make one hell of a compelling vehicle AND more heavily invest in infrastructure between now and then.

finman100
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Re: CHAdeMO-to-Tesla adapter?

Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:13 pm

I'm in the SuperCharger camp. THAT is what is so compelling about a Tesla. Okay it's fast, yes.

I even have a fairly robust Chademo DC quick-charge network here in Oregon for my Leaf (and i love my Leaf...for now). I mean, a Really, Really good one, all up and down I-5, all up and down Highway 101 (coastal), and even into and over the Cascades (Willamette Valley going east.) But I am not leaving the region with a Leaf. And I cringe when I get to a QC station and the ONE spot for DC charging is already taken. The L2 next to it is not cutting it for timely travels.

FAR and AWAY, Tesla is doing the charging infrastructure right. If GM or Nissan want to even compete here they better get on it. Or just get a battery that will work with a SuperCharger, pay Tesla, and start selling better EVs.

I don't get the feeling they want to any of that. So their EV market is not gonna be growing, guaranteed.

300,000 reservations says it loud and clear.

toyota had alot of time to get me an EV after a great stint with the Prius. Didn't happen, moved on.

Nissan now has 2 years to entice me with Tesla-like features or I will move on. I already see how it is going, but hey, maybe they will get with it.
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4.2 miles/kWh average
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wmcbrine
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Re: CHAdeMO-to-Tesla adapter?

Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:06 pm

bitflung wrote:i don't know about anyone else, but in the Boston MA region there are plenty* of chademo and superchargers but only 2-3 SAE Combo chargers.
I see them spreading rapidly. Around here, a lot of formerly-CHAdeMO-only charging stations got upgraded to dual-standard in the last year.

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