Recommended charger types via price/quality

Well I have been poking around this site for a few hours and could not find what I want.

I am soon to be a 2013 owner but am not up to speed on the best way to handle the home charge station situation.

I called the number Nissan posted on their website for home assessment, provided the $100, and an electrician/company called me the next day. The electrician wanted photos of my breaker box, my garage, etc. The next day they called back and told me they don’t need to come for the onsite inspection and will just come for the install.

This irked me as I was told I would get somebody to come physically onsite to look things over and write me up a bid. Instead, somebody wants to come and do the work without the bid at some unknown price. Anyway, the contractor told me they are not being paid to come and do an inspection so it seems now that I paid $100 to have somebody to arrange an electrician phone me back.

So it is time for me to step back and ask you guys for a little guidance. Later at the dealership my story had them give me the name of an installer but a second dealership recommended to me to buy a charger kit on Amazon and call my own electrician to keep from getting gouged.

So now I notice from this site there are many different charger options. Can somebody list out for me the different charger kit options in order of quality, popularity, recommended vendor/e-vendor if their price is exceptional?

If this information is buried on this site somewhere, a link would work just as well. Trying to pull the info out of 50 different hidden posts would not be so nice.

Thanks!

what charger option did you choose for the car?. The 3.3kW or the 6kW?

ehunter said:

...So now I notice from this site there are many different charger options. Can somebody list out for me the different charger kit options in order of quality, popularity, recommended vendor/e-vendor if their price is exceptional?

If this information is buried on this site somewhere, a link would work just as well. Trying to pull the info out of 50 different hidden posts would not be so nice.

Thanks!

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You are right, the information is scattered. The main thread on the subject, EVSE Installation, Info and Cost Comparison Thread, is pretty dated.

I think you will find that various people have their own favorite EVSE models. But for lowest cost and highest reliability, I think it is hard to beat having the "trickle charge" Nissan/Panasonic EVSE supplied with the car upgraded to 240 Volts by EVSEUpgrade.com. Then all you have to do is have an electrician install a 240 Volt circuit and outlet in the garage. If your electrical panel is in the garage it can be a DIY job if you are handy with such things. If you already have an unused 240 V circuit in the garage it will be easy.

The downside of going the upgrade route is that if you want to carry the EVSE in your car it is a hassle to pack it up each day. But most people just leave it in place and don't carry it in the car unless they have reason to believe they will need it on a particular trip.

If you don't want to go the upgrade route, there are many brands of EVSE; some can be had for as little as $700 from places like Home Depot. Examples are Schneider and Leviton. The GE Wattstation had problems with blowing the charger on older LEAFs so many stay away from that one. The Clipper Creek brand is highly respected; that's probably what I would have purchased with had I not gone with EVSE Upgrade (but I am very, very pleased with EVSE Upgrade, it is solid and very reliable).

As for the dealer EVSE program to install the house brand, it is considered by many to be overpriced. You can do better on your own and I would try to get that $100 back since you didn't get the analysis of your installation situation that you rightly expected. Having an EVSE installed without a written estimate from the electrician is a no-go. Better to get your own and call several local electricians for estimates.

Be aware that you can use the supplied Level 1 (120 Volt) EVSE to charge your car until you decide what to do for a Level 2 installation. If your daily mileage is low, say below 40 miles, you might find that it works well enough. Depends on your situation.

Herm said:

what charger option did you choose for the car?. The 3.3kW or the 6kW?

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Yeh... I guess I should have stated it will be an SL, which I think will have the 6kW factory installed on the car.

I am partial to Leviton and the evseupgrade. You will need 30a minimum to charge at full speed. 16a would be fine also if you had some reason to limit power but by the phone estimate it sounds like installing a 40a circuit to support the 30a EVSE will be fairly easy.

Yes you just need an electrician to install a 40a circuit and NEMA 6-50 outlet or hardwire the EVSE.

If you have an unused 30a dryer outlet conveniently located, you could go with the upgrade, 16a Leviton or the 20 amp Clipper Creek.
(corrected CC to 20a )

smkettner said:

I am partial to Leviton and the evseupgrade. You will need 30a minimum to charge at full speed. 16a would be fine also if you had some reason to limit power but by the phone estimate it sounds like installing a 40a circuit to support the 30a EVSE will be fairly easy.

Yes you just need an electrician to install a 40a circuit and NEMA 6-50 outlet or hardwire the EVSE.

If you have an unused 30a dryer outlet conveniently located, you could go with the upgrade, 16a Leviton or the 25 amp Clipper Creek.

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The Clipper Creek is 20A not 25, the EVSE Upgrade is the same power as the Clipper Creek and runs on 120V. A LEAF does not pull 30A, and at home even 20A is extremely fast.

I bought my Leaf 11 days ago and am planning on buying the Siemens VersiCharge 30A EVSE from Home Depot for $849. One thing I like about the Siemens system is that they are working on a WiFi interface that is suppose to be available mid-2013. The WiFi unit will plug into the existing "Field Upgradable Communications Port". The Siemens 30A system requires a 40A breaker and supplies up to 7.2 kW of power.

-= Jim =-

OK, What exactly does 6kW charging require for the 2013 to charge at full speed?

I would recommend a 30a 240v wall mounted EVSE, since they are likely to be the most robust and convenient for daily use -- and allow the maximum charging rate for the 2013 Leaf.

You may prefer one that is mountable outdoors -- especially if you have little choice (note these are preferably (or sometimes required by design to be) "direct wired", to improve safety).

The maximum cable length NEC allows from the EVSE to the "nozzle" is currently 25 feet, but some of the name EVSEs may be as little as 16-18 feet. So figure out where to best mount the EVSE on the wall, where you want to park the Leaf normally, and run a length of rope between the two, estimate the slack you need -- so come up with a minimum length of cable you will require from your EVSE.

If you have a garage you very well may want the EVSE positioned so that it can charge the Leaf both fully inside the garage as well as when it is parked outside.

A "direct wired" EVSE is safest when children are present, but "cord and plug" EVSEs (a lockable receptacle cover is highly recommended to help protect children) may be desirable if you see the need to occasionally move the EVSE to charge away from home (NEMA 6-50 seems to be the standard plug/receptacle EVSEs use, btw).

Some of these have some form of delay timers which may be of value and help you narrow the models to consider.

Siemens, Schneider, Leviton, GE, AeroVironment, and Ecotality (and probably others) all make EVSEs worth considering.

^^^
I just couldn't help but LOLing re: Ecotality. I think there are a fair # of folks here who'd disagree with you.

I'd also personally stay away from GE Wattstations, for the time being. Yeah yeah, the OBC (on-board charger) is different on the '13, but there still hasn't been a fixed rolled out for everyone for the '11 and '12 models to prevent the Wattstation from possibly blowing the OBC.

smkettner said:

OK, What exactly does 6kW charging require for the 2013 to charge at full speed?

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That's easy. According to Nissan it pulls 6.6kW at the wall. So at 240v that would be a 27.5A draw. Add 25% to that for continuous service and you need a little more than 34A. Effectively it means you need a 30A EVSE on a 40A circuit.

However, the real question is why you need to charge at full speed at home. The 6kW charger is a huge benefit if you are sitting at a public charging station somewhere waiting for enough juice to make it home. But most people really shouldn't care whether the charge takes two hours or four hours while you are sleeping at night. (Approximate average numbers for a person driving 50 miles per day. YMMV)

Ray

Thanks Colorado for the guidance...

dgpcolorado said:

... it is hard to beat having the "trickle charge" Nissan/Panasonic EVSE supplied with the car upgraded to 240 Volts by EVSEUpgrade.com. Then all you have to do is have an electrician install a 240 Volt circuit and outlet in the garage. If your electrical panel is in the garage it can be a DIY job if you are handy with such things. If you already have an unused 240 V circuit in the garage it will be easy.

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I dont have a 240v outlet in the garage so it would be $287 + electrician install of a 240v outlet in the garage. Wish I knew the high/low costs of having this done. As of now I am clueless.

dgpcolorado said:

If you don't want to go the upgrade route, there are many brands of EVSE; some can be had for as little as $700 from places like Home Depot. Examples are Schneider and Leviton. The GE Wattstation had problems with blowing the charger on older LEAFs so many stay away from that one. The Clipper Creek brand is highly respected; that's probably what I would have purchased with had I not gone with EVSE Upgrade (but I am very, very pleased with EVSE Upgrade, it is solid and very reliable).

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The clipper creek is a 4.7kW unit. The charge time is going to be important to me so I am looking for at least a 6kW unit. Here are my notes thusfar.

Q: with a Leaf, setting the money aside, is there an advantage using a 40A charger compared to the 30A everybody else is selling?

Homies
Leviton is $1100 (25’ cable) for 40A EVR Green 400
Leviton is $849 (20’ cable) for 30A
Siemens is $849 (20’ cable) for 30A
Eaton is $999 (24’ cable) for 30A
GE is $849 (16’ cable) for 30A
Don’t see any Schnider units here…

Amazon
AeroVironment is $999 (25’ cable) 30A
AeroVironment is $949 (15’ cable) 30A
Nissan is $999 (25’ cable) 30A
Siemens is $995 (20’ cable) 30A
Leviton is $1100 (25’ cable) for 40A EVR Green 400

Ebay
Nissan LEAF – EVSE Charger Upgrade, 12A – $269 shipped

Others
Clipper Creek LCS25 25A $595 4.8kW http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/ClipperCreekInc/-strse-6/Level-2-EVSE%2C-Level/Detail.bok" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Clipper Creek CS40 25’ cord, 30-100A $1750 http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/ClipperCreekInc/-strse-1/CS-dsh-40/Detail.bok" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Leviton is $1100 (25’ cable) for 40A EVR Green 400 (free ship, Calif store)
http://www.hollywoodwholesaleelectric.com/leviton-evb40-5pt-residential-charging-stations.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No advantage to 40a unless your next EV can use it.

ehunter said:

I dont have a 240v outlet in the garage so it would be $287 + electrician install of a 240v outlet in the garage. Wish I knew the high/low costs of having this done. As of now I am clueless.

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Of course the cost of getting 240v into your garage applies no matter what EVSE you get. Whether the wire is hard-connected to the EVSE or terminates with an outlet has next to no effect in the cost. As to the cost of getting it done, would it help if we said somewhere between $100 and $5000? Really, we can't help you on that since there are so many variables specific to your own residence. Since you feel you need the maximum charging rate you can't take advantage of any cheap ways out like using a dryer outlet, tying two circuits together with a Quick220, or co-opting a 20A 120v circuit. The only way to learn your cost is to get estimates from electricians.

Ray

jbrad4 said:

I bought my Leaf 11 days ago and am planning on buying the Siemens VersiCharge 30A EVSE from Home Depot for $849. One thing I like about the Siemens system is that they are working on a WiFi interface that is suppose to be available mid-2013. The WiFi unit will plug into the existing "Field Upgradable Communications Port". The Siemens 30A system requires a 40A breaker and supplies up to 7.2 kW of power.

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After living in Germany for 8 years and the people there telling me the quality of Siemens products is equates to Kmart quality goods, I believe I have been somewhat brainwashed. Maybe I should give Siemens a chance. I like your description

MikeD said:

I would recommend a 30a 240v wall mounted EVSE, since they are likely to be the most robust and convenient for daily use -- and allow the maximum charging rate for the 2013 Leaf.

So figure out where to best mount the EVSE on the wall, where you want to park the Leaf normally, and run a length of rope between the two, estimate the slack you need -- so come up with a minimum length of cable you will require from your EVSE.

If you have a garage you very well may want the EVSE positioned so that it can charge the Leaf both fully inside the garage as well as when it is parked outside.
…

Siemens, Schneider, Leviton, GE, AeroVironment, and Ecotality (and probably others) all make EVSEs worth considering.

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Thanks Mike. All great points.

planet4ever said:

According to Nissan it pulls 6.6kW at the wall. So at 240v that would be a 27.5A draw. Add 25% to that for continuous service and you need a little more than 34A. Effectively it means you need a 30A EVSE on a 40A circuit.
…
(Approximate average numbers for a person driving 50 miles per day. YMMV)

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Thanks Ray, what is soaking into my head at the moment is that 40A circuit and a 30A charger with enough cable to charge in and outside he garage. On some days my commute will be 103 miles. My employer has free chargers at the office meaning ½ my charging is going to be free while I slave away in the office.

smkettner said:

No advantage to 40a unless your next EV can use it.

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A gamble on the future for an extra $250. I guess not then…

ehunter said:

planet4ever said:

According to Nissan it pulls 6.6kW at the wall. So at 240v that would be a 27.5A draw. Add 25% to that for continuous service and you need a little more than 34A. Effectively it means you need a 30A EVSE on a 40A circuit.
…
(Approximate average numbers for a person driving 50 miles per day. YMMV)

Click to expand...

Thanks Ray, what is soaking into my head at the moment is that 40A circuit and a 30A charger with enough cable to charge in and outside he garage. On some days my commute will be 103 miles. My employer has free chargers at the office meaning ½ my charging is going to be free while I slave away in the office.

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Hmm, strange sort of editing you did on my post. That parenthetic comment at the end had nothing to do with the numbers I gave at the top. It applied to my contention that you didn't actually need 6kW charging at home. It sounds like your "half of 103 miles/day" matches nicely with my guess of 50 miles/day. So do you really feel you need to recharge in two hours at night rather than four hours? In fact with the 20A version of the EVSEupgrade you could recharge in an estimated 3 to 3½ hours.

Ray

Other, lower-cost options not yet discussed include open-EVSE (if you don't mind a project) and scouring ebay. Currently on ebay there are a couple of refurbished CS-60s which are a bit of overkill for the Leaf (up to 48a charging on a 60a circuit) but are nice quality units with 25' of cable and are cheaper than any other pre-assembled 30a+ EVSEs. I'm getting one of these for my Rav4-EV. I've often seen the Nissan-recommended Aerovironment 30a EVSEs on ebay as well.

Speaking of ebay, if you go with evseupgrade.com just go through their site direct, don't use ebay. Another option is making me an offer on my already-evseupgraded unit.

planet4ever said:

It applied to my contention that you didn't actually need 6kW charging at home. It sounds like your "half of 103 miles/day" matches nicely with my guess of 50 miles/day. So do you really feel you need to recharge in two hours at night rather than four hours? In fact with the 20A version of the EVSEupgrade you could recharge in an estimated 3 to 3½ hours.

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Now and then I HAVE to run out after work to do an errands, or Fridays meet friends in the city for beers. The faster charge has value and adds convience. Plus, where I live on the coast, about a one week of the year, a storm knocks out the neighborhood power. I could easily see myself struggling to gain/have enough charge to get to work in the morning. Why pinch pennies and gamble away such freedom? To add further to this, in the coming years the more powerful systems may still be able to support the newest technologies. The older less powerfull ones purchased now... money potientially out the window. So it is one philosophy against another and I just prefure to look forward.

I think I am going to go with the Siemens from Homies....

ehunter said:

Now and then I HAVE to run out after work to do an errands, or Fridays meet friends in the city for beers. The faster charge has value and adds convience. Plus, where I live on the coast, about a one week of the year, a storm knocks out the neighborhood power. I could easily see myself struggling to gain/have enough charge to get to work in the morning. Why pinch pennies and gamble away such freedom? To add further to this, in the coming years the more powerful systems may still be able to support the newest technologies. The older less powerfull ones purchased now... money potientially out the window.

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I can certainly accept that you may want faster charging on occasion, so more power to you. [pun intended]

The part I don't buy is that newer EV technologies will make slower EVSEs obsolete. I would expect that EVs will become slightly more efficient over time, so the old EVSE will actually provide a few more miles in the same amount of time as it does today. One enhancement that is almost certainly coming is larger batteries. That obviously means that my old, slow, EVSE can't fill the battery from empty to full in the time it does today, but paradoxically that too may make it more effective than it is now. Given an average number of miles traveled per day, a small battery constricts you to daily charging and limited excursions beyond the average. If your battery capacity is (say) six times your average travel distance, you will need to charge only once or sometimes twice a week, and a storm knocking out your power will be much less of a concern. You can also float your charge up and down, letting the battery itself act as a buffer. The EVSE now needs only to be able to handle your average usage, not your maximum usage.

Personally, I expect to use my 12A (yes, 12, not 16) EVSEupgrade for the rest of my life if it doesn't wear out before I do, because I don't expect to ever average more than 100 miles/day (i.e. 36K miles/year). Nine hours average charging/day would handle that forever into the future.

Ray

No advantage to 40a now, but maybe later. Two years ago there was little or no advantage for 30a. The 40a Leviton has a dock for the handle. Their lower amp units do not and use what appears to be a garden hose hook which some have complained that the cord falls off and the connector can get dirty when hitting the floor.

I preferred Leviton because of their reputation and I liked the powder coated metal casing. I didn't want to pay the extra money for the 40a unit, so I bought the Siemens VersiCharge 240V 30a from Home Depot online for $849. I was going to get it from Amazon, but when I went back Friday to order, they raised the price to $995. I figured that I had better jump on the $849 price at Home Depot before they raised the price too.

My electrician installed the 40a breaker and 250v 50a NEMA 6-50 plug yesterday for $120. My breaker box is in the garage. So all in with taxes, I'll spend about $1020 and plan to get my 30% tax credit, so net net about $750. That is about twice what you'd pay for EVSE upgrade, but it's more convenient.

The VersiCharge should arrive this week and my Cayenne Red 2013 Leaf SL is supposed to arrive this week too.

smkettner said:

No advantage to 40a unless your next EV can use it.

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