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EVDRIVER
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EVSE Plug Adaptors, Cords and Modifications Info

Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:01 pm

I am creating this thread so people have a resource to discuss and post information on plug adaptors and modifications on various EVSE products. With more and more EVSE discussion and the history of many EV enthusiasts making various plug adaptors and modifications to provide the greatest amount of charging flexibility this thread can provide valuable information for those looking to buy or build their own.

indyflick
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Re: EVSE Plug Adaptors, Cords and Modifications Info

Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:56 pm

Since we now have a thread dedicated to discussing EVSE hacks, I'll repost this suggestion I posted in another thread. So I wonder if a virtual Level 1/2 EVSE could be created using two standard 3-prong 120v connectors. If two 120v connections are present on different circuits, the EVSE would "bond" them together as a quick and dirty portable Level 2 charger. If not, then it operates as a standard Level 1 EVSE. There could be an indicator on the unit, so that the user would know they are actually connected to two separate 110v circuits back to the panel, and what the aggregate voltage and amperage through the EVSE is. The application would be for EV owner who finds a Level 1 charger acceptable most of the time, however on occasion they have put on a lot of miles and need it topped off by morning.

I realize an extension cord may also be necessary for this to work, but I see videos of Nissan techs using extension cords on Level 1 EVSEs all the time.

smkettner
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Re: EVSE Plug Adaptors, Cords and Modifications Info

Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:04 pm

I would be interested to know if the included L1 could stand up to 240v and pass 12 amps just as easy as at 120v 8-)
The gfi may well not like having two hot vs hot neutral or maybe it is a non issue. Signal generator or switch control may also be an issue.
What else is in that box? The cords are probably rated 600v.

Worst case I see is you let the smoke out of it ;)
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garygid
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Re: EVSE Plug Adaptors, Cords and Modifications Info

Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:27 pm

As soon as you get one, you may send it to me to investigate its guts.

An EVSE can certainly be made that will do 120/240 volt operation (see SPX 32A),
and 240v-from-two-120v is easiest done with a two-socket adapter, and CAUTION.

The two 120v sockets near my clothes washer are on different legs
(one on L1, the other on L2, both on Neutral) of the house supply.
Easy to check with CAREFUL use of a small AC voltmeter.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius, now for sale
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2018 Tesla Model 3
2014 Tesla S, Model 3 in 2019
PU: SDG&E
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EVDRIVER
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Re: EVSE Plug Adaptors, Cords and Modifications Info

Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:45 pm

indyflick wrote:Since we now have a thread dedicated to discussing EVSE hacks, I'll repost this suggestion I posted in another thread. So I wonder if a virtual Level 1/2 EVSE could be created using two standard 3-prong 120v connectors. If two 120v connections are present on different circuits, the EVSE would "bond" them together as a quick and dirty portable Level 2 charger. If not, then it operates as a standard Level 1 EVSE. There could be an indicator on the unit, so that the user would know they are actually connected to two separate 110v circuits back to the panel, and what the aggregate voltage and amperage through the EVSE is. The application would be for EV owner who finds a Level 1 charger acceptable most of the time, however on occasion they have put on a lot of miles and need it topped off by morning.

I realize an extension cord may also be necessary for this to work, but I see videos of Nissan techs using extension cords on Level 1 EVSEs all the time.

Not a big issue as long as no GFI circuits are being used. I will be making one when I get my car.

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EVDRIVER
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Re: EVSE Plug Adaptors, Cords and Modifications Info

Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:59 pm

garygid wrote:As soon as you get one, you may send it to me to investigate its guts.

An EVSE can certainly be made that will do 120/240 volt operation (see SPX 32A),
and 240v-from-two-120v is easiest done with a two-socket adapter, and CAUTION.

The two 120v sockets near my clothes washer are on different legs
(one on L1, the other on L2, both on Neutral) of the house supply.
Easy to check with CAREFUL use of a small AC voltmeter.

I'm already researching this with one of my EV engineers who can hack any EV charger, inverter or component. He is an expert in charging systems and EV components. If people are serious and willing to do the donation route to get one in advance I would be willing to source one and spend the engineering time to do the work to research a solution. It is possible the unit may be available via Nissan parts prior to the arrival of the car. We already have a tentative solutions for a couple other system modifications in the works but have not started direct work on the EVSE yet.

indyflick
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Re: EVSE Plug Adaptors, Cords and Modifications Info

Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:00 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:Not a big issue as long as no GFI circuits are being used. I will be making one when I get my car.
From scratch or will you be modding an existing EVSE?

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garygid
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Re: EVSE Plug Adaptors, Cords and Modifications Info

Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:18 pm

Regular GFI vs EV GFI:

GFI is often (usually) not looking fo some (small) current flowing in the Ground wire, but an imbalance of current flowing in the two "power" wires.

1. Regular: a small difference of something like 5 to 10 milli-amps (0.005 to 0.010 amps) triggers the cut off.

2. EV GFI: In testing EVSEs, it was found that the Regular (small) current imbalance was too often triggered, in normal operation. So, the GFI in EVSEs is usually set higher, up to around 20 milli-amps, to eliminate the many false alarms.

This comes from a discussion of implementation practices in the J1772-2010 standards document, and a section in NEC635 that permits the higher GFI detection level ... as I recall.

Because of this, apparently many (some) EVSEs will NOT work well if plugged into a GFI wall circuit (GFI in the socket, or in the breaker). Thus, the use of EVSEs may suggest that a NON-GFI circuit should be used.

Yep, some seem to "suggest" using a GFI socket/circuit.

Yes, confusing and contradictory, I know.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius, now for sale
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2018 Tesla Model 3
2014 Tesla S, Model 3 in 2019
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
To Sell: X-treme 5000Li EV motorcycle

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EVDRIVER
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Re: EVSE Plug Adaptors, Cords and Modifications Info

Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:17 pm

garygid wrote:Regular GFI vs EV GFI:

GFI is often (usually) not looking fo some (small) current flowing in the Ground wire, but an imbalance of current flowing in the two "power" wires.

1. Regular: a small difference of something like 5 to 10 milli-amps (0.005 to 0.010 amps) triggers the cut off.

2. EV GFI: In testing EVSEs, it was found that the Regular (small) current imbalance was too often triggered, in normal operation. So, the GFI in EVSEs is usually set higher, up to around 20 milli-amps, to eliminate the many false alarms.

This comes from a discussion of implementation practices in the J1772-2010 standards document, and a section in NEC635 that permits the higher GFI detection level ... as I recall.

Because of this, apparently many (some) EVSEs will NOT work well if plugged into a GFI wall circuit (GFI in the socket, or in the breaker). Thus, the use of EVSEs may suggest that a NON-GFI circuit should be used.

Yep, some seem to "suggest" using a GFI socket/circuit.

Yes, confusing and contradictory, I know.

Yes, they are more sensitive, perhaps only the ones that are hard wired need don't use GFI circuits as they are more sensitive.

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EVDRIVER
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Re: EVSE Plug Adaptors, Cords and Modifications Info

Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:22 pm

indyflick wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:Not a big issue as long as no GFI circuits are being used. I will be making one when I get my car.
From scratch or will you be modding an existing EVSE?

It will be an adaptor to supply to an existing portable EVSE or to a home made box with a J inlet and pilot signal.

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