Orbiter2006
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:46 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Jan 2015
Leaf Number: 024913

L1/L2 counter increases by 2 to 4 each charge

Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:47 pm

Hello I am a newbie here.

Located in Netherlands I drive a leaf bought new in January 2015. ( 24 KWH battery)
Dealer did 1 QC at delivery, Leaf Spy confirms still 1 QC as I never do QC.

I drive 5 times a week around 22 miles a day and charge at night using standard EVSE cable on a 240 Volt 16 Amp outlet in my garage.
I use the timer to start charge after midnight ( not in the weekend) and use the 80% option to extend battery life. Charging is stopped at 7 am and I have always had normal range after a charge.
Only used 100 % charge a couple of times to handle a longer journey.
In a year I have now 5900 miles on my Odo and all looks fine.

But I have been monitoring using LeafSpy and I see over 715 L1/L2 charges. I am sure that I have not charged it more than 300 times !
Last week I recorded the L1/L2 counter and see it step up from 702 to 706 to 709 to 711 to 715.
I am not aware of power failures at night and the cable, box and wall outlet do not heat up during charging.

Why does this counter increment 2 to 4 steps during one night ? Could this be cause by cell balancing ?
Or is the Android app Leaf spy (tried both lite and pro versions) counting wrong ?

Another thing is the SOH readout, it is at 88% after just one year and 5900 miles.
Temperature in Netherlands in summer rarely gets above 80 F and winters are mild, not below 23 F .
I have heard that SOH lowers faster in the first year but I had not expected this rapid decrease.
I have a yearly check-up at my dealer scheduled next week, should I raise this issue ? A "normal" user ( without OBDII dongle and Leafspy) would not notice anything unusual !

I plan to do a 100% charge cycle on Sunday morning so I can monitor things more closely and see if I still have 12 bars. I can read out battery SOC and temp with Leafspy but I think ODBII only works when I power up and this may interrupt charging.

Is there a way to record or plot a charge graph showing voltage and temperatures during a charge session ?

Greetings !

cwerdna
Posts: 9728
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: L1/L2 counter increases by 2 to 4 each charge

Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:18 pm

I recall seeing a report that if you use the charging timers, the counter will increment by 2 (maybe it was even more?). One will be for when you plug in and another will be for when charging actually starts.

I haven't bothered to check but I usually use the 12 am to 12 am 80% trick to limit the charge to 80%, and so that I can remotely via Carwings/NissanConnect get it to charge from 80% to 100% before I leave from work, on days where I want 100%.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

QueenBee
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:14 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 2062
Location: Bellevue (Seattle), WA

Re: L1/L2 counter increases by 2 to 4 each charge

Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:09 pm

Yep, if you have the charge timer set it immediately checks for voltage which increments the counter. Then later when it starts charging this increments the counter.

I've heard of it balancing and starting another charge session but haven't seen that my self.

You can use LEAFSpy while charging as long as your ODBII dongle is powered up. Can even turn you car on while charging wishing interrupting it.

12% loss in that short of time and miles is no fun but not much you are going to get Nissan to do.

Evoforce
Posts: 919
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: L1/L2 counter increases by 2 to 4 each charge

Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:25 am

I am suffering the same losses in Arizona USA with my 2011 Leaf with lizard installed late December 2014. You will probably lose your first bar in April-May.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

cwerdna
Posts: 9728
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: L1/L2 counter increases by 2 to 4 each charge

Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:48 am

Orbiter2006 wrote: Located in Netherlands I drive a leaf bought new in January 2015. ( 24 KWH battery)
...
I drive 5 times a week around 22 miles a day and charge at night using standard EVSE cable on a 240 Volt 16 Amp outlet in my garage.
...
I use the timer to start charge after midnight ( not in the weekend) and use the 80% option to extend battery life. Charging is stopped at 7 am and I have always had normal range after a charge.
Only used 100 % charge a couple of times to handle a longer journey.
In a year I have now 5900 miles on my Odo and all looks fine.
...
Another thing is the SOH readout, it is at 88% after just one year and 5900 miles.
Temperature in Netherlands in summer rarely gets above 80 F and winters are mild, not below 23 F .
I have heard that SOH lowers faster in the first year but I had not expected this rapid decrease.
I have a yearly check-up at my dealer scheduled next week, should I raise this issue ? A "normal" user ( without OBDII dongle and Leafspy) would not notice anything unusual !!
Your SOH values might be artificially low due short drives and charging only to 80% most of the time. What about Hx?

I can't speak to your climate at all as I've only been the the Netherlands once, during December 2010.

Here are some semi-recent stats from my 2013 Leaf (built 5/2013) that's resided in the SF Bay Area:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 46#p449846

I don't follow my stats that closely, but yesterday (2/6/16) they worse than I remember seeing before.
Miles: 29,943
Ahr=58.13
SOH=88%
Hx=87.93%

Except for the final charge on Friday, all my charges earlier in the week were only to 80%.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Orbiter2006
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:46 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Jan 2015
Leaf Number: 024913

Re: L1/L2 counter increases by 2 to 4 each charge

Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:33 am

Thanks to all who replied !

So the high number of L1/L2 counter is explained and can't be used to blame me for loss of capacity.

At delivery in January 2015 my SOH was 99% ( Hx 99.54% Ahr 65.05) and currently Leafspy shows Hx 87.77% and Ahr 58.05 after only 1 year and 5900 miles.
I have the "9 bars left after 5 years or 100.000 km (62.000 miles) warranty" and it looks like I will need it !
I read somewhere that this warranty limit equals to 70 % Hx but other sites mention 75 % capacity.

I have reduced electricity tariff from 23:00 - 07:00 and at weekends from Friday 23:00 until 07:00 Monday.
My 2 KWp solar panel feeds in at full tariff during the day ! I have a good old electromechanical KWh meter running backwards at sunny days.
So I will continue to use the charge timer and charge only at night. This also ensures that charging is done at the lowest battery temperature !

I switched logging on in leaf spy pro and will try to capture data during a 100% charge by pressing timer override button.

cwerdna
Posts: 9728
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: L1/L2 counter increases by 2 to 4 each charge

Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:52 am

cwerdna wrote: Your SOH values might be artificially low due short drives and charging only to 80% most of the time.
Re: this, see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 55#p449455. I believe NegativeCarbon's stats are more in line w/reality now. I believe I'd seen another post somewhere else where both SOH and Hx are now down to the high 80s. His '13 was purchased in December 2013 and built (IIRC) a few weeks before he bought it.

There's been a lot of discussion, which I haven't followed re: some weird phenomena. AFAIK, Nissan has never documented any of these values, the conditions in which they're accurate/not accurate/can be trusted, what they mean, etc. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p450860 had what seem like reasonable explanations.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jpadc
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:25 am
Delivery Date: 20 Dec 2014
Location: Indiana & Wisconsin

Re: L1/L2 counter increases by 2 to 4 each charge

Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:11 am

Welcome Orbiter2006: I too can confirm that L1/L2 count can be more than double your actual charge cycles from using the timer to charge. Turn the car back on to check a climate timer or whatever and the cycle starts again and another charge is added to the count. It can get way high fast.
cwerdna wrote:I believe NegativeCarbon's stats are more in line w/reality now. I believe I'd seen another post somewhere else where both SOH and Hx are now down to the high 80s. His '13 was purchased in December 2013 and built (IIRC) a few weeks before he bought it.
I've not seen a thread (maybe its on FakeBook) showing updated values for NegativeCarbon's stats (would like to, however) but there are plenty of threads on MNL that suggest that more use (including the letting battery run down to LBW and charging to 100%) with more miles driven per day in temperate climates results in longer life for the battery. Members like Evoforce in hot climates seem to have very fast battery deterioration.
2013 Leaf S /w Charge Package - Purchased new in Iowa City Dec. 2014
My previous car was a 2008 Prius Touring Package 5 - 73k Miles, 43 MPG lifetime

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14144
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: L1/L2 counter increases by 2 to 4 each charge

Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:00 am

ya, one (and only) mark against LEAF Spy is its inability to only record charging sessions and ignore circuit checks.

As for me? I have a rarity; a LEAF that averages 40 miles per charge. over 32,000 miles with just over 800 charging events combining L1, L2 and L3 but then again; don't use timers... its all or nothing for me!
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

QueenBee
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:14 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 2062
Location: Bellevue (Seattle), WA

Re: L1/L2 counter increases by 2 to 4 each charge

Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:30 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:ya, one (and only) mark against LEAF Spy is its inability to only record charging sessions and ignore circuit checks.
That's not a mark against LEAFSpy it's a mark against Nissan as LEAFSpy is just displaying what Nissan stores.

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