Uccello
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:12 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0240
Location: San Diego

Re: SDG&E "Experimental Rates" TOU Plans

Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:40 pm

Back in December we opted out of the SD rate study because SDGE wanted to add a second meter to our system for the car. We have an excess of solar power since we designed the system for two electric cars. SDGE wanted us to pay for charging the car even though we were producing plenty of power from our PV system. We reviewed all the rate schedules before we made the decision and back then there was only two different classes, M and H, the low rate structure not currently being offered. (Though in reality the L,M,H names I found highly misleading once you study the rates. They are posted somewhere on SDGE's site. They are buried pretty deep otherwise I'd link to them)

We'll see how the rest of the EV Project goes now that the car has been delivered!

-U

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garygid
Gold Member
Posts: 12469
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:10 am
Delivery Date: 29 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000855
Location: Laguna Hills, Orange Co, CA

Re: SDG&E "Experimental Rates" TOU Plans

Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:59 pm

So, you figure that, with "enough" PV over-production, considering the added cost of installing the extra meter, and the (possibly?) extra monthly meter fee, that just staying on the standard whole-house, non-TOU (-D?) rate is best?
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius
2011 LEAF, 2014 Tesla S85
2018 & 2019 Tesla Model 3
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
Craigslist: Xm5000Li Electric Motorcycle

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walterbays
Posts: 1209
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:41 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: SDG&E "Experimental Rates" TOU Plans

Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:42 am

garygid wrote:So, you figure that, with "enough" PV over-production, considering the added cost of installing the extra meter, and the (possibly?) extra monthly meter fee, that just staying on the standard whole-house, non-TOU (-D?) rate is best?
For me either of the experimental EV rates are best, which is good since I'm accepted for the EV project. Otherwise I'd just stay on the DR schedule because the EV-TOU rate isn't worth it with all the uncertainty on costs, and the EV-TOU2 rate is worse. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 7&start=20 I could send you my spreadsheet if you wanted to alter it to put in your own assumptions of usage and PV production, and see how the numbers work out for you.
bodengroden wrote: If I average 50 miles a day (12 kW) is it simply 12 x the rate $0.07 x 30 days = ~$25.2 a month?
One extra twist is that the 5 hours of super off-peak are not enough to fully charge the battery from 0 to 100%. So on days when you drove more than about 70 miles, if you needed a full charge the next day you'd have to do some charging at normal off-peak rates. Probably not an issue if you're usually giving it 80% charge and not pushing the range day after day.

Are you sure about that 50 miles a day? 18,000 miles per year? I looked at my yearly miles driven, subtracted out road trips, and came up with a surprisingly low average daily miles around town.
7/00 Dodge Intrepid - 18 MPG - gas $1.72
10/04 Toyota Prius - 35 MPG - $2.40
8/30/10 reserved - $3.09
2/22/11 ordered red SL ETEC - $3.56
3/15/11 delivery est. May - $3.95
4/29/11 delivery est. June - $4.20
2.9 kW PV: >100% of power needs, pre-Leaf

GroundLoop
Posts: 1725
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:31 pm

Re: SDG&E "Experimental Rates" TOU Plans

Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:56 am

garygid wrote:So, you figure that, with "enough" PV over-production, considering the added cost of installing the extra meter, and the (possibly?) extra monthly meter fee, that just staying on the standard whole-house, non-TOU (-D?) rate is best?
IF you have enough over-production (annual net) to cover your EV, then you are better off with a single meter on DR. You can net out $Zero$ for the year, or even get a few pennies back for surplus. In this case, if you opted for the dual-meter (subtractive) Experimental rates, you'd have more overproduction and a monthly bill for the EV use. Even at super-duper-off-peak, it appears the Solar overage wouldn't be paid out at a higher rate, so you'd have to pay the difference. Not a win.

If I was OVER-producing reliably, with enough to cover the EV, I'd stay off the second meter (but still join EV Project).

Conversely, if I am confident that Solar won't cover all my DR use anyway, then I'm certainly better off on the Experimental rates. Assuming I charge off-peak, the electricity will always be the same or cheaper than additional (marginal) DR electricity. If the EV would push you into the 130%+ brackets, then it's certainly a win to go Experimental rate. This is my situation.


Now, the part most people don't know is that you CAN join the EV Project, and decline the second meter keeping the SDG&E arrangement you already have. Then you get the free Blink charger, installation, and data monitoring at the same electric rate you would pay anyway. Worth a thought.

stanley
Posts: 607
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:48 pm

Re: SDG&E "Experimental Rates" TOU Plans

Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:15 pm

GroundLoop, Is Ecotality still accepting applications for free chargers?

GroundLoop
Posts: 1725
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:31 pm

Re: SDG&E "Experimental Rates" TOU Plans

Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:29 pm

stanley wrote:GroundLoop, Is Ecotality still accepting applications for free chargers?
YES, in San Diego. I confirmed this on Saturday with Andy Hoskinson at ECOtality.

(LA might be full?)

You must have a Leaf Reserved or Ordered, but not yet Delivered. It must have a DC QuickCharge port (either SL-e or paid for).
Volts are also allowed (even though they don't have a DC port)

You can't apply until your Reservation is in place, and once you take delivery, it's too late. At least, that's how I understood it.

Uccello
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:12 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0240
Location: San Diego

Re: SDG&E "Experimental Rates" TOU Plans

Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:16 pm

Part of the problem of the experimental rates is that while the super off peak is very low and the daytime rate extra ordinarily high, SDGE doesn't credit back PV energy production at the rate when it is produced. So if I'm producing 24kWh of electricity they will only credit me at $~0.10/kWh, not the higher rate being charged to customers actually the energy at the time I'm producing it.

Now that we've been driving the car for a few days our assumptions about when we recharge and for how long have changed a bit- originally we thought that we'd be recharging every other day because we don't do a whole lot driving. But we've found that since it is recommended to only charge to 80% capacity, we are "topping off" every night albeit for only a few hours. So for those that are tied to a five hour super low off peak charge rate you'll probably be fine on a day to day basis (because you aren't charging the car with an empty battery to 100% every night, which takes about 7 hours)

So far our net solar production has been enough to cover our driving and our regular household usage, so we still haven't effectively been charged for any power from the grid yet. YAY!

-u

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