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Spies
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Leaf Number: 0255
Location: Foster City, CA

Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:05 am

The good news is that my retrofitted EVI MCS 100-3 EVSE with a brand new Yazaki J1772 plug and cable from the fine folks at Clipper Creek will in fact charge the LEAF but the bad news is none of the LEAF timers work.

This of course creates a number of issues for me including not being able to join the 80% club and also having to continue to rely on the pool timer hooked to the EVSE so the LEAF will charge during off-peak time. I suspect I will not have the ability to pre-heat or pre-cool the Leaf cabin with grid power either.

This situation seems to be triggered by the fact that the LEAF does some sort of "testing" of the EVSE when first plugged in when using a timer. This "testing" will cause the relays in my EVSE to close but then the relays will open up again after just a few seconds. I suspect my EVSE does this as a safety measure because it senses no power being drawn. Once this cycle happens the timers will come and go without the relays closing again.

Now if I don't set a timer or I override the timer the moment I pug in the EVSE the relays will close and the LEAF will charge.

Next to going out a buying a different EVSE does anyone have suggestions on how I might be able to get this combination to work? How are the LEAF timers supposed to function with the EVSE? I will also be contacting Clipper Creek to see what they think. Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
Green Honda EV Plus 02/1998-12/2003 plate "ZERO CO2" rip, Aptera 2e #726 canceled
Blue Nissan Leaf SL loaded reserved 04/20/2010 ordered 08/31/2010 EVSE Blink #182
CARWINGS Nickname Theres233, should be Spies

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:36 am

well that is a bummer i guess. so i have no real idea what you did, so what did you do? how much it cost and are u in a TOU area?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 2640.9 mi, 99.37% SOH
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GroundLoop
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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:52 am

Interesting problem, Spies. I wouldn't have expected that much 'smarts' to be between the Leaf and EVSE. Your hypothesis sounds reasonable.. the EVSE doesn't like something the Leaf does during connection, or the Leaf does something differently when the timer hits.

Definitely give CC a call and walk them through the scenario. It's likely a software fix from them, and they'll want to get it right to service the biggest EV rollout of 2011.

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:56 am

There is likely a work around. Talk to CC.

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LEAFer
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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:00 pm

Spies: I would be VERY interested to find out what you learn from ClipperCreek.

This "relays-not-closing" issue could also become a problem for the battery balancing or top-off phase we've been learning about from other threads.

Also ... be aware that your MCS is not aware of the "proximity" signal in J1772-2010. That means you should cut power on the upstream side (at the MCS or "higher") before removing the J-plug from the car. (You probably already knew this ... but just so everyone else is aware.)

(Side comment: the MCS is SO OLD ... software upgrade(s) from ClipperCreek are ... NOT going to happen.)
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

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Spies
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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:17 pm

I just want to be clear that my EVSE manufactured by MCS is not a Clipper Creek product and was purchased when I got my Honda EV Plus way back in 1998. I don't want to suggest that any Clipper Creek product does not work properly with the LEAF. Clipper Creek was kind enough to sell me a UL approved Yazaki J1772 plug and cable for $350 plus tax and shipping so I can do the retrofit and suggested that my EVSE should work properly with the LEAF but of course there were no guarantee since no had a LEAF to test with yet.

I have been trying to come up with a workaround this morning to get the pool timer and the LEAF timers to somehow work together but to no avail. If the LEAF allowed one to set the charge to 80% without using the built in timers would be one way I could pull it off. Another way would have been if the LEAF timers had a "window" of charging but alas it seems they only have start time and if that time passes and the LEAF is not plugged in nothing will happen until that timer comes around again the next day.

Just a note, the pool timer was a low tech way to get around the fact that neither the Honda EV Plus or the EVSE had timer capability. Worked great for the most part exact one time the clock mechanism in the timer got stuck. Luckily I noticed in time to get enough charge in the car before I needed to get to work since I worked in the afternoon in those days. Just cost me more money to charge that day. I have been on the PG&E E9a rate since I got the Honda EV Plus.
Green Honda EV Plus 02/1998-12/2003 plate "ZERO CO2" rip, Aptera 2e #726 canceled
Blue Nissan Leaf SL loaded reserved 04/20/2010 ordered 08/31/2010 EVSE Blink #182
CARWINGS Nickname Theres233, should be Spies

DarkStar
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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:20 pm

Does the proximity pin (not the PWM pin) go all the way back to the EVSE? If so and the EVSE is turning that off, that is your problem. Pin 5 (proximity) should be looped back to pin 3 with a 150 ohm and 330 ohm resistors inline. This tells the vehicle that the EVSE is connected.

Sounds like the EVSE might be cutting off that signal, making the car think it's not connected anymore.
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Spies
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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:34 pm

LEAFer wrote:Also ... be aware that your MCS is not aware of the "proximity" signal in J1772-2010. That means you should cut power on the upstream side (at the MCS or "higher") before removing the J-plug from the car. (You probably already knew this ... but just so everyone else is aware.)
LEAFer are you sure about the needing to cut power part? Certainly the MCS is not J1772-2010 but it is J1772 and produces the J1772 pilot signal. The MCS behaves with the LEAF just as it did before with other EVs except when the timers are involved. Also does this "proximity" signal come from a different line on the on the Yazaki connector? The reason I ask is the only lines in the Yazaki connector were the same ones that were in the Avcon connector I replaced and are the following:
Green wire = Ground
Black Wire = Line 1
White wire = Line 2
Blue Wire = Pilot (communication)
Green Honda EV Plus 02/1998-12/2003 plate "ZERO CO2" rip, Aptera 2e #726 canceled
Blue Nissan Leaf SL loaded reserved 04/20/2010 ordered 08/31/2010 EVSE Blink #182
CARWINGS Nickname Theres233, should be Spies

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Spies
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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:43 pm

DarkStar wrote:Does the proximity pin (not the PWM pin) go all the way back to the EVSE? If so and the EVSE is turning that off, that is your problem. Pin 5 (proximity) should be looped back to pin 3 with a 150 ohm and 330 ohm resistors inline. This tells the vehicle that the EVSE is connected.

Sounds like the EVSE might be cutting off that signal, making the car think it's not connected anymore.
You might be onto something here but it still does not feel quite right to me based on the behavior. I suppose I need to figure out what is opening the relays back up in the EVSE after plugging in with timers set on the LEAF. Do other EVSE keep the relays closed when a timer is set? I don't know at this time if it is something the EVSE is doing to open the relays back up or something that the LEAF is doing when a timer is set to open the relays back up.
Green Honda EV Plus 02/1998-12/2003 plate "ZERO CO2" rip, Aptera 2e #726 canceled
Blue Nissan Leaf SL loaded reserved 04/20/2010 ordered 08/31/2010 EVSE Blink #182
CARWINGS Nickname Theres233, should be Spies

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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:07 pm

Spies wrote:
LEAFer wrote:Also ... be aware that your MCS is not aware of the "proximity" signal in J1772-2010. That means you should cut power on the upstream side (at the MCS or "higher") before removing the J-plug from the car. (You probably already knew this ... but just so everyone else is aware.)
LEAFer are you sure about the needing to cut power part? Certainly the MCS is not J1772-2010 but it is J1772 and produces the J1772 pilot signal. The MCS behaves with the LEAF just as it did before with other EVs except when the timers are involved. Also does this "proximity" signal come from a different line on the on the Yazaki connector? The reason I ask is the only lines in the Yazaki connector were the same ones that were in the Avcon connector I replaced and are the following:
Green wire = Ground
Black Wire = Line 1
White wire = Line 2
Blue Wire = Pilot (communication)
The "cut power ... before removing J1772 plug" is a precaution that applies mostly when the car is still charging with power running thru the cable. The disconnect motion when you remove the J-plug does indeed "cut" the pilot signal and in essence tell the MCS to cut power automatically. But unlike the "strain relief" (at the EVSE end) safety feature, where the pilot signal gets pulled first if the cable gets yanked, there is no equivalent function, EXCEPT thru the proximity signal, on the J-plug side. So ... small as the possibility may be ... depending on timing and plug motion ... if you have power in the J-plug, and the proximity signal is NOT functioning as designed, then you could end up with a situation of arcing across the high-voltage pins while pulling the J-plug.

Ask Clipper Creek when you talk to them ... that's how I understand the J1772-2010 function of the proximity signal.

EDIT: I too need to eat a little bit of crow today ... see my post on the next page made at 6:02pm. The above statement
But unlike the "strain relief" (at the EVSE end) safety feature, where the pilot signal gets pulled first if the cable gets yanked, there is no equivalent function, EXCEPT thru the proximity signal, on the J-plug side.
is incorrect or at least misleading. Also see Gary's info in the next post below.
Last edited by LEAFer on Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

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