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garygid
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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:44 am

Andy,
I agree, the LEAF is OK, and I edited my earlier posts to match.

The PWM should continue, but this particular older EVSE apparently thinks that it is "done" after the single "on" session. This particular older EVSE still works with the LEAF for "immediate-start" charging. It is possible that this EVSE just needs a firmware upgrade that it never got.

Perhaps other "older" EVSEs will behave differently, and will work OK with the LEAF's Timers.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
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Spies
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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:53 pm

Gary wins the prize! :) Mystery solved! :D Problem still exists :(

It turns out that this EVSE, and possibly all the EVI MCS 100-3, was specifically programmed to only allow a single cycle. I learned this by speaking with Matt, Gary and Jason at Clipper Creek. I believe it was Jason who was one of the original engineers on the EVI MCS 100-3 and he remembered that these units were programmed that way to get around a bug that was discovered in the Honda EV Plus. The bug was that one of the computers in the Honda EV Plus would stay on and listening to the pilot after the charge cycle was complete. This listening prevented the computer from going to sleep and it would continue to draw power from the 12 volt system on the car until the pilot was removed or the 12 volt battery was dead. Having to jump start your electric car just because you left it plugged in would not be a happy experience. So the initial solution was to have the pilot shut down in the EVSE after one cycle. I believe Jason did mention he was instrumental in getting the bug fixed in the Honda EV Plus itself but of course this single cycle behavior is still built into my EVSE. I was also told that this EVSE is still fully J1772 compliant even with this single cycle behavior.

It seems that the hardware and software used to program the pilot in these units is long gone so removing the single cycle behavior from the pilot controller does not seem feasible at this time. Jason did suggest one thing to try and that was to momentarily disconnect the pilot line while the LEAF is plugged into the EVSE to try and fake out the pilot into resetting the cycle without the LEAF noticing but the LEAF would just trigger a cycle again no matter how fast I did it.

So at this point I am going to try and see if the LEAF timers at least have a small window after they trigger to get the car in and still have it charge. This way I might be able to get the pool timer synchronized enough that I will be able to join the 80% club.

It still boggles my mind as to why you can't set an 80% charge without a timer.
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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:11 pm

Spies wrote:It still boggles my mind as to why you can't set an 80% charge without a timer.
You aren't the only one! :D
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EVDRIVER
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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:54 pm

Can't you just put in a new pilot signal circuit and bypass what they use. Seems there is a easy work around.

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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:12 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:Can't you just put in a new pilot signal circuit and bypass what they use. Seems there is a easy work around.
Possibly but that might be beyond my scope right now.

I suppose all I would really need is to have a pilot device that would piggyback onto the one I have. Its not like the relays won't close if they are asked to after the first cycle its just that the pilot is no longer generated after the first cycle.
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mitch672
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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:51 pm

Have you asked your contacts at Clipper Creek if they can come up with a small pilot signal replacement module? Seems like all of those old chargers surviving could use that circuit, along with the new J-1772 cable of course.
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garygid
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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:56 pm

This old EVSE might have been "J1772 compatible" at the time, but it appears that it is NOT "FULLY complient" with the J1772-2010 Standards.

Since they no longer support this old EVSE unit:

In the somewhat unlikely event that they were willing to provide circuit schematics and any other technical information that they might still have, I might be able to find a fix.

If they REALLY tossed out all the files, listings, diskettes, etc. for this firmware, then one of the original programmers might still have a copy in an "off-site archive".

The relay-control logic, the measuring of the CP's high-side voltage level, and the generation of the PWM signal are probably all done in firmware, so simple generation of an external PWM signal is unlikely to work. It might be enough to "trick" the LEAF, but might not be enough to "trick" the EVSE at the same time. Replacement of the EVSE's entire logic unit MIGHT be necessary.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius, now for sale
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
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Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:23 pm

mitch672 wrote:Have you asked your contacts at Clipper Creek if they can come up with a small pilot signal replacement module? Seems like all of those old chargers surviving could use that circuit, along with the new J-1772 cable of course.
I think I have pretty much exhausted what Clipper Creek will do for me when it comes to this EVSE. Of course they did sell me the Yazaki plug and cable to work with it. Keep in mind they are in the business of selling EVSEs and I am sure they would be willing to sell me a new pilot signal module that is installed inside a Clipper Creek EVSE :)

What kills me is that this single cycle "feature" was added to the EVSE to get around a bug that I was not even aware of until today that was in Honda EV Plus and now it is causing bug like behavior in my LEAF as a result!

By the way I played with the LEAF timers a little more this afternoon and it appears that the window to plug in after the timer has passed is about 3 minutes. A lot smaller than the 10 minute window I was hoping for. I don't think I can get the pool timer synchronized within 3 minutes which means no 80% club with this EVSE for now :(
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Spies
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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:44 pm

garygid wrote:Since they no longer support this old EVSE unit:
I don't know what the relationship is between the company that originally made my EVSE called Electric Vehicle Infrastructure, Inc. and ClipperCreek, Inc. beyond Jason working for both companies. Anything beyond this would be pure speculation on my part.

I did just take the time to do a search about Electric Vehicle Infrastructure, Inc. and ClipperCreek, Inc and it seems from what I can tell EVI became ClipperCreek. Interesting.

I can try getting a hold of Jason again and see if he still has anything on this particular EVSE but the impression I got talking with him today makes me doubt that he does.
Green Honda EV Plus 02/1998-12/2003 plate "ZERO CO2" rip, Aptera 2e #726 canceled
Blue Nissan Leaf SL loaded reserved 04/20/2010 ordered 08/31/2010 EVSE Blink #182
CARWINGS Nickname Theres233, should be Spies

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:48 pm

Spies wrote:
garygid wrote:Since they no longer support this old EVSE unit:
I don't know what the relationship is between the company that originally made my EVSE called Electric Vehicle Infrastructure, Inc. and ClipperCreek, Inc. beyond Jason working for both companies. Anything beyond this would be pure speculation on my part.

I did just take the time to do a search about Electric Vehicle Infrastructure, Inc. and ClipperCreek, Inc and it seems from what I can tell EVI became ClipperCreek. Interesting.

I can try getting a hold of Jason again and see if he still has anything on this particular EVSE but the impression I got talking with him today makes me doubt that he does.

Post your issue to the EVDL board, someone there may have the docs you need.

http://www.evdl.org/

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