GRA
Posts: 11555
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:19 pm

WetEV wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:52 am
GRA wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:53 pm
Nah, liquid fossil-fueled ICEs will be around for a lot longer than it will take for BEVs to achieve comparable to ICE performance/cost, unless gas/diesel are banned prior to that.
BEVs are comparable to ICE performance/cost for some users. Just not for you, and not quite for the median driver. The median driver is likely to find BEVs equal to ICE performance long before you do.

As long as they insist on the car's ability to take road trips, they won't, regardless of how infrequently they use that capability.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 11555
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:37 pm

One site is open, #9 for the month and #387 total: San Diego #3 (Urb., I-15 ex. 8). This is the Murphy Canyon QC site johnlocke has been monitoring.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

WetEV
Posts: 3393
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Electrify America Network

Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:27 pm

3382 Murphy Canyon Rd.
San Diego, CA 92123
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

WetEV
Posts: 3393
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Electrify America Network

Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:33 pm

GRA wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:19 pm
WetEV wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:52 am
GRA wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:53 pm
Nah, liquid fossil-fueled ICEs will be around for a lot longer than it will take for BEVs to achieve comparable to ICE performance/cost, unless gas/diesel are banned prior to that.
BEVs are comparable to ICE performance/cost for some users. Just not for you, and not quite for the median driver. The median driver is likely to find BEVs equal to ICE performance long before you do.

As long as they insist on the car's ability to take road trips, they won't, regardless of how infrequently they use that capability.
Not every road trip is a GRA road trip Also, BEV commute time and bother savings will balance some of the difference.

Driver's needs are a distribution, not a single value. Remember my neighbors in Massachusetts? Their longest road trip ever was to
Springfield. That's Springfield MA, just to clarify. With a 60kWh LEAF, they could probably do that road trip on home charging only. L2 at the hotel would make it very robust. While they are not the median driver, you are not the median driver as well.

Driver's wants and needs cover a distribution. To get 4% of sales, you need to be a better choice for 1 in 25 people.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

johnlocke
Posts: 565
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: Electrify America Network

Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:24 pm

GRA wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:37 pm
One site is open, #9 for the month and #387 total: San Diego #3 (Urb., I-15 ex. 8). This is the Murphy Canyon QC site johnlocke has been monitoring.
The CCS chargers are open but not the combined Chadeno/CCS station. Took a much closer look at the CCS stations. There are two cables on each station labeled 1 and 2. They are very short, maybe 8-10 ft. Rated at 150KW for each. You would need to pull in such that the charging port is next to the station. The 240VAC station is open as well. I can only guess that one cable is for cars with the charge port on the left while the other is for cars with charge port on the right. I doubt that either cable is long enough to reach across the car.

The combined station is next to the garden dept. The station is located half way down the parking space with a 4 ft wide no parking area between the station and the EV charging space and faces parallel to the parking space. both the CCS and Chademo cables are short also. If I pull in next to the station as indicated by the parking stripes, the Chadamo cable is too short to plug in to the charge port. In order to use the Chademo cable I'd have to pull in right next to the station and about half way into the parking space with my tail in the traffic lane. If they had put the station in front of the parking space it would have worked much better. It might work for a car with the charge port on the fender depending on which way they pull into the stall

I'll keep monitoring the station to see when the Chademo charger becomes operational. Looking at their pricing schedule, it looks to me that the EVGO station down the road is about the same cost except that EVGO gives me some charge time for my subscription fee where EA doesn't.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

cwerdna
Posts: 10115
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Electrify America Network

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:24 am

^^^
News Coloumb, a Bolt driver (and somewhat of a Bolt fanboy) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJqgqW ... BZa7JK5KSw often does California DC FC site reviews. He has touched upon the shortness of cables at some DC FC sites (not necessarily EA specific) and sometimes poor angling. I wish I could find the video where he had to basically park over the angled parking space lines to get the cable to reach the Bolt's inlet since the chargers were not angled.

As I've mentioned in Bolt posts, after having driven Leaf for over 6 years (and still driving it usually 3 days/week) and now having a Bolt, to me, the center nose position is still the best place for an inlet. The driver's side fender position is clearly inferior for a lot of public and workplace charging. About the only good argument I've heard for not having it in the nose (the front end damage one to me is BS) is that in snowy/icy environments, the snow/ice buildup in the front after driving can be an issue. If I had that problem, I guess I'd bring along a thermos of warm water.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14488
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Electrify America Network

Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:25 am

johnlocke wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:24 pm
GRA wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:37 pm
One site is open, #9 for the month and #387 total: San Diego #3 (Urb., I-15 ex. 8). This is the Murphy Canyon QC site johnlocke has been monitoring.
The CCS chargers are open but not the combined Chadeno/CCS station. Took a much closer look at the CCS stations. There are two cables on each station labeled 1 and 2. They are very short, maybe 8-10 ft. Rated at 150KW for each. You would need to pull in such that the charging port is next to the station. The 240VAC station is open as well. I can only guess that one cable is for cars with the charge port on the left while the other is for cars with charge port on the right. I doubt that either cable is long enough to reach across the car.

The combined station is next to the garden dept. The station is located half way down the parking space with a 4 ft wide no parking area between the station and the EV charging space and faces parallel to the parking space. both the CCS and Chademo cables are short also. If I pull in next to the station as indicated by the parking stripes, the Chadamo cable is too short to plug in to the charge port. In order to use the Chademo cable I'd have to pull in right next to the station and about half way into the parking space with my tail in the traffic lane. If they had put the station in front of the parking space it would have worked much better. It might work for a car with the charge port on the fender depending on which way they pull into the stall

I'll keep monitoring the station to see when the Chademo charger becomes operational. Looking at their pricing schedule, it looks to me that the EVGO station down the road is about the same cost except that EVGO gives me some charge time for my subscription fee where EA doesn't.
Ok sounds like you have a typical station. There was talk about queuing at EA and I could barely contain my composure. None of the dozen EA stations I have seen have

**any extra parking spaces

**cables long enough to reach adjacent spaces

**On nose in parking; Cables barely reach ports located on sides of cars.

**On drive in parking; Some have to back into the space, while others cannot align properly in order for cable to reach

**Many Bolters are having to hold the cable in place to insure sufficient contact to initiate charging session


Your pricing comment is a bit of a surprise so wondering about the details of EVgo pricing and EA pricing because EVgo is significantly more money here because

** Higher per minute fees 25 cents during daylight, 22 cents at night verses 18 cents for EA

** Whole minute billing rounded UP ALL the time which means at charge "timed" at 12:00 is billed for 13 minutes verses EA which prorates by the second.

** Added time to charge for handshake, disconnect, etc. Roughly 20-30 seconds added to billed time from machine time. FYI; machine time is nearly identical to LEAF Spy timing on the charge

But your situation also illustrates the issue for chademo based cars. I am happy to say I am seeing MUCH less CCS cars using the combo station. Thank you for that. But its still a one plug station and for the extra dime, I will gladly move on to the next station up the road (likely a EVgo multi combo station) where queues are shorter and availability of a plug is higher.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 3500.3 mi, 96.95% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 2070
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Electrify America Network

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:37 am

cwerdna wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:24 am
As I've mentioned in Bolt posts, after having driven Leaf for over 6 years (and still driving it usually 3 days/week) and now having a Bolt, to me, the center nose position is still the best place for an inlet. The driver's side fender position is clearly inferior for a lot of public and workplace charging. About the only good argument I've heard for not having it in the nose (the front end damage one to me is BS) is that in snowy/icy environments, the snow/ice buildup in the front after driving can be an issue. If I had that problem, I guess I'd bring along a thermos of warm water.
Having driven a 2012 Leaf and now a 2017 Bolt, I agree whole-heartedly.

As for your thermos idea, picture this. You go skiing. You leave with a full charge, and drive straight to the mountain. While skiing, the car sits in the lot, cold-soaking for 8 hours in sub-zero temperatures. After skiing, you need to hit a DCFC on your way home (I almost could have used one last night, but I made it home with 10% remaining thanks to snow plows forcing me to drive 30 MPH on the highway). Anyway - that thermos you brought alone will be frozen solid right when you use it. If this is a recurring issue, then a better solution is an integrated heater. Many cars have heated side mirrors - why not a heated charge port door?
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

GRA
Posts: 11555
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:58 pm

^^^While there's nothing wrong (besides cost) with a heated charging port door, the simplest, cheapest option is to use the can of de-icing fluid with a built in scraper that you should be carrying anyway to remove ice from windows, mirrors and door latches, to free up the charge port. Example: https://www.zoro.com/prestone-windshiel ... gJX_fD_BwE
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

User avatar
paulgipe
Posts: 331
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:23 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Oct 2014
Leaf Number: 311200
Location: Bakersfield, CA 93305
Contact: Website

Re: Electrify America Network

Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:24 pm

Thanks for that Guy. Didn't know about that stuff--been a long time since I lived in the Great White North. ;)

Paul
Bakersfield, California
2017 Bolt LT with DCFC, leased 11/09/17
2015 Nissan S with QC, leased, returned
2013 Chevy Volt Premium, used 10/3/16, sold
L2; ClipperCreek HCS-40; Jesla; JDapter Stub
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