DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14977
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Electrify America Network

Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:01 am

Semmm wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:27 am
cwerdna wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:43 am
GetOffYourGas wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:20 am
Inconvenience and a slight cost increase (remember, EV charging at home is still cheaper than gas) is not the same as hardship.
Re: bolded part, not really. I no longer have an ICEV but when I tracked lifetime mileage of my former Prius, it was around 44 mpg. A gas station I used to frequent is just under $3/gal now. If I paid $3/gal and only got 40 mpg, that'd be 7.5 cents/mile.

Currently, because I have to WFH and changed out of a TOU plan that would've killed me given I work during the day (w/horrific rates except in the middle of the night) an that I'm being pushed to tier 2 due to WFH, my marginal cost to charge an EV at home (I can only charge at L1) is about 31 cents/kWh. If I manged 4 miles/kWh including charging losses, that's 7.75 cents/mile. If I had a more realistic 3.5 miles/kWh, it'd be 8.85 cents/mile and that probably won't be possible in winter w/my Bolt w/its power pig heater.
I have the same situation, when i bought my leaf,I had thought that i would save same money on it's service and gas, and than, I got that expenses are the same, off course its good for nature, but it's makes me disappointed a little bit :(
I am not fully understanding your statement. You say maintenance on the LEAF didn't save you money or your charging costs offset the savings?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cwerdna
Posts: 11012
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Electrify America Network

Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:25 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:27 am
cwerdna wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:43 am
GetOffYourGas wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:20 am
Inconvenience and a slight cost increase (remember, EV charging at home is still cheaper than gas) is not the same as hardship.
Re: bolded part, not really. I no longer have an ICEV but when I tracked lifetime mileage of my former Prius, it was around 44 mpg. A gas station I used to frequent is just under $3/gal now. If I paid $3/gal and only got 40 mpg, that'd be 7.5 cents/mile.

Currently, because I have to WFH and changed out of a TOU plan that would've killed me given I work during the day (w/horrific rates except in the middle of the night) an that I'm being pushed to tier 2 due to WFH, my marginal cost to charge an EV at home (I can only charge at L1) is about 31 cents/kWh. If I manged 4 miles/kWh including charging losses, that's 7.75 cents/mile. If I had a more realistic 3.5 miles/kWh, it'd be 8.85 cents/mile and that probably won't be possible in winter w/my Bolt w/its power pig heater.
So what you're saying is that you have a pretty extreme edge case and are an exception to the rule. Fair enough. I'm still not sure that paying 8.85 cents/mile qualifies as a "hardship".

I'm in a similar situation - I got "free" charging at work (technically I pay a flat $12/mo, but my company hasn't waived that for the pandemic, so I'm still paying while I WFH). Meanwhile, my home electric usage is higher than it has ever been. I'm charging two EVs from home and running the A/C all day since the family is all home. Although I pay about the national average - $0.12/kWh. Gas is down around $2/gallon. 40MPG at $2/gal is 5 cents/mile. 4 miles/kWh at $0.12/kWh is only 3 cents/mile. Plus I'm driving fewer miles to begin with (no commuting).
Mine's not an extreme edge case. This is what we get for Pacific Gouge & Extort. My former ICEV was on the more efficient side, yes, but if I had a gen 3 or 4 Prius, that has better FE than my former gen 2.

See viewtopic.php?p=585141#p585141 about my rates and viewtopic.php?p=513907#p513907 about how baselines are set. I'm now on E-1 and also pay 1 cent/kWh extra for supposedly 100% renewable electricity via my city.

We cannot dream of 12 cent/kWh rates in PG&E land. Even the cheapest rates on a TOU plan are higher than that.

Can't write more at the moment. It will have to wait until tonight/the weekend.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 2094
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Electrify America Network

Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:31 pm

cwerdna wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:25 am
GetOffYourGas wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:27 am
cwerdna wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:43 am

Re: bolded part, not really. I no longer have an ICEV but when I tracked lifetime mileage of my former Prius, it was around 44 mpg. A gas station I used to frequent is just under $3/gal now. If I paid $3/gal and only got 40 mpg, that'd be 7.5 cents/mile.

Currently, because I have to WFH and changed out of a TOU plan that would've killed me given I work during the day (w/horrific rates except in the middle of the night) an that I'm being pushed to tier 2 due to WFH, my marginal cost to charge an EV at home (I can only charge at L1) is about 31 cents/kWh. If I manged 4 miles/kWh including charging losses, that's 7.75 cents/mile. If I had a more realistic 3.5 miles/kWh, it'd be 8.85 cents/mile and that probably won't be possible in winter w/my Bolt w/its power pig heater.
So what you're saying is that you have a pretty extreme edge case and are an exception to the rule. Fair enough. I'm still not sure that paying 8.85 cents/mile qualifies as a "hardship".

I'm in a similar situation - I got "free" charging at work (technically I pay a flat $12/mo, but my company hasn't waived that for the pandemic, so I'm still paying while I WFH). Meanwhile, my home electric usage is higher than it has ever been. I'm charging two EVs from home and running the A/C all day since the family is all home. Although I pay about the national average - $0.12/kWh. Gas is down around $2/gallon. 40MPG at $2/gal is 5 cents/mile. 4 miles/kWh at $0.12/kWh is only 3 cents/mile. Plus I'm driving fewer miles to begin with (no commuting).
Mine's not an extreme edge case. This is what we get for Pacific Gouge & Extort. My former ICEV was on the more efficient side, yes, but if I had a gen 3 or 4 Prius, that has better FE than my former gen 2.

See viewtopic.php?p=585141#p585141 about my rates and viewtopic.php?p=513907#p513907 about how baselines are set. I'm now on E-1 and also pay 1 cent/kWh extra for supposedly 100% renewable electricity via my city.

We cannot dream of 12 cent/kWh rates in PG&E land. Even the cheapest rates on a TOU plan are higher than that.

Can't write more at the moment. It will have to wait until tonight/the weekend.
Oh, I understand that it's out of your hands. And that a lot of EV drivers live in PG&E land. However, understand that the vast majority of Americans do not. $0.12/kWh is pretty common for most people. So paying a marginal rate of 2.5x the national average is a pretty extreme edge case. My guess is that represents something like 2 sigmas from the mean.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

cwerdna
Posts: 11012
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Electrify America Network

Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:35 pm

^^^
For my most recent bill, my total electric charges were $86.51 for 31 billing days. My baseline (tier 1) allowance was only 319.3 kWh. I used 324.126 kWh and I think I charged both of my EVs 0 times at home that month. I almost never charging at home unless absolutely necessary due to high rates.

I went only 4.826 kWh into tier 2, so those kWh cost me at least 30.6 cents each. The first 319.3 cost me ~24 or 25 cents each. (It's complicated due to being charged PG&E rates, having a generation credit then this goofy "power charge indifference adjustment", blah blah + another 1 cent per kWh for 100% renewable.)

I have no AC at home other than a "portable" rolling AC unit and I almost never use it. If I used it that month, it was probably for no more than 2 days. My dryer is electric only. There is no natural gas hookup for the dryer. My water heater is nat gas.

(If you hadn't looked, https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/ ... Sch%29.pdf is the EV2 plan here. See pages 2 and 3. You'll see the cheapest rates are 16.6 cents per kWh but outside those hours, it is 33.3 to 47.86 cents/kWh. It is IMPOSSIBLE to make my electricity usage 0 during those expensive hours. At least that plan has no tiers...)

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1999
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Electrify America Network

Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:05 pm

Ok, EA called me today (I raised a ticket on the reduced charging rate). I nicely explained the reduction in performance, and they said, no our Chademos should only be offering 50kW. She said she had heard of a few going higher, but those were exceptions. She was very interested in my car model/version.

I would suggest everyone on this board do the same and open a ticket and ask for a follow up. A little volume can help them inform their management.

I also asked them again to have 2 Chademo handles as I would give them more business. With all of the new Chademo stations going up (Greenlots, evgo, etc..) I am certainly going to preference any stop with 2 handles over 1.

I have to say the service from EA is great when you call, they just don't really care about the Leaf population. They just aren't going to change their strategy for us.
2019 S Plus (97.98% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.84% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

cwerdna
Posts: 11012
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Electrify America Network

Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:12 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:05 pm
Ok, EA called me today (I raised a ticket on the reduced charging rate).
...
I also asked them again to have 2 Chademo handles as I would give them more business. With all of the new Chademo stations going up (Greenlots, evgo, etc..) I am certainly going to preference any stop with 2 handles over 1.

I have to say the service from EA is great when you call, they just don't really care about the Leaf population. They just aren't going to change their strategy for us.
As a reminder for newer folks here, EA is a wholly-owned subsidiary of VW of America. VW AG owns brands such as VW, Audi and Porsche (https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/brands-and-models.html). But yeah, obviously before they (from their actions) didn't care about CHAdeMO and thus Leaf drivers. VW AG has never shipped any vehicles in the US w/CHAdeMO (their Japanese market e-Golf has CHAdeMO though). EA seems to be doing the minimum to "support" CHAdeMO in the US, presumably to comply w/the dieselgate settlement terms.

I expect them to care as much or even less now given that Nissan Ariya for the US and Europe are going CCS... leaving really only the new consumer plug-in automobiles being sold/leased as new in the US w/CHAdeMO being Leaf, Outlander PHEV and Teslas w/$450 adapter.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

danrjones
Posts: 730
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Electrify America Network

Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:55 am

paulgipe wrote: “Only 27 kW, half hour in sun and wind to get started. Had to use credit card. Charged earlier today. Now no account data. More later.”
From Plugshare, Paul it looks like you had some trouble at Coso Junction EA? I was hiking Langley Saturday and it was great up there.

That's the kind of thing in our area that worries me - not that my current Leaf can get to Horseshoe or high sierra anyway, but even if it could, I'm really reluctant to trust single sites. If that CHAdeMO went down I'd be stuck and have to call a tow truck.

Hopefully that Cal-trans site comes on line soon there at Coso Junction. With a backup, I would be willing to risk with an EV that had the legs to get up to Horseshoe.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

User avatar
paulgipe
Posts: 360
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:23 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Oct 2014
Leaf Number: 311200
Location: Bakersfield, CA 93305
Contact: Website

Re: Electrify America Network

Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:08 am

Dan,

My post will be up shortly.

Yes, we absolutely need the CalTrans station--and we need it to work. ;)

My friend had planned to do Langley. She did Cirque Peak instead. Turns out she was up there the same time we were. I wouldn't do Langley again, unless I was in much better shape than I am now. I did it about 5-7 years ago and my buddy had to practically drag my but up there. I was sicker than a dog once I got there too.

You really need a big battery to drive the East Side.

Paul
Bakersfield, California
2017 Bolt LT with DCFC, leased 11/09/17
2015 Nissan S with QC, leased, returned
2013 Chevy Volt Premium, used 10/3/16, sold
L2; ClipperCreek HCS-40; Jesla; JDapter Stub
http://www.wind-works.org

danrjones
Posts: 730
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Electrify America Network

Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:31 pm

paulgipe wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:08 am
Dan,

My post will be up shortly.

Yes, we absolutely need the CalTrans station--and we need it to work. ;)

My friend had planned to do Langley. She did Cirque Peak instead. Turns out she was up there the same time we were. I wouldn't do Langley again, unless I was in much better shape than I am now. I did it about 5-7 years ago and my buddy had to practically drag my but up there. I was sicker than a dog once I got there too.

You really need a big battery to drive the East Side.

Paul
Yes you need to be in good shape. I started at about 3:15am, 6 hours up, an hour at the top, 5 hours back down. And there is always someone in better shape than you. Saw one guy trail running it, he passed me later in the day as I was going down - he was going up - and he passed me again even later on his way down. So he went was up and down in only about 5-6 hrs. I can't imagine running that route. I'm in pretty good shape, but not that good!

Looking forward to your post, was wondering what was going on.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

GRA
Posts: 12192
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:40 pm

One site has opened, don't know where. It's not one of the road trip sites I'm monitoring in CA and AZ. Anyone? Totals 454/102.

I'm hoping to get over on the east side and do some hiking in Little Lakes Valley, maybe do a 3rd class route on Mt. Mills. But I want to rent a BEV or (more likely given availability and access) a PHEV to get some data on
battery energyy use through Yosemite. Unfortunately, Yosemite's got a quota system at the moment for people who are just transiting the park on 120, and you need advance reservations, so it's a pain. I can take 108 instead but that defeats the purpose of the drive, albeit not the trip.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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