GetOffYourGas
Posts: 2100
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Electrify America Network

Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:27 am

SageBrush wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:04 pm
^^ I was baiting your tendency to reply as if the world revolves around cwerdna. As if anyone but you cares about your corner case.
It's not really a corner case, it just happens to apply to a car other than the topic of this forum. Anyone who drives a Bolt now pays a whole lot more per kWh.

Previously EA was the cheapest (paid) option in NY. Other networks we have:
EVolve NY: $0.35/kWh
EV Connect (on the Thruway): $0.30/kWh
EVGo*: $0.43/kWh (with the plan) or $0.51/kWh (without the plan)

EVGo charges by the minute still. The cost is $0.27/min or $0.30/min. Most EVGo chargers in NY are only 100A, so you realistically get up to about 37kW out of them. Doing the math assuming a 37kW charge rate results in the prices above.

So now EA is a very close second place for cheapest quick charging in NY.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

WetEV
Posts: 3993
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Electrify America Network

Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:52 am

1065 Brea Mall Drive
Brea, CA 92821
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

SageBrush
Posts: 5265
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Electrify America Network

Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:07 am

I looked a bit more into the new EA pricing scheme. The states I found that have two tier charging rates get great rates.

The west coast is single tier, but frankly I'm not sympathetic to the the whining if the local residential rate is on par with the EA rate. That is not EA, it is the high local price.

The people that were short-sighted and demanded per kWh charging rates are getting what they asked for: a homogenized demand cost structure, at least in those states with one tier. It does however seem fair to ask why some states have a two tier price structure and some one tier.
Last edited by SageBrush on Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

danrjones
Posts: 748
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Electrify America Network

Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:16 pm

Someone else can do the math, but last time I charged on a EA station - mind you just to check it in Mojave since it was new - I only pulled about 15 kW. Partly due to SOC, but largely due to the Leaf being too hot. i would guess the new pricing would have cost me less.

To me the argument over cost is less important than reliability of the chargers and the locations. 99% of my charging is at home anyway so if once and awhile I pay the "same" as gas prices, to me, that's not a big deal. What is a big deal is not having enough chargers, or chargers not working. A lot of companies keep announcing they are "partnering" with EA rather than doing their own chargers, Hey that's great, if that meant EA suddenly built 5x more stations. I don't see that though. There simply are not enough stations that even if I had a longer distance EV that I would feel comfortable doing a ROAD trip. I would want to see chargers every 40-50 miles along routes like US 395 and I-40, and redundancy as well. You give me that and I'll pay.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2080
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Electrify America Network

Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:04 pm

Here here! Danjones

Completely agree, I only need DC charging for trips over 200 miles, so I will take reliability over price....well maybe after remaining 9 months of nctc lasts.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

GRA
Posts: 12262
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:26 pm

IEVS:
Does Electrify America's New Pricing Structure Mean Lower Fees For All?

https://insideevs-com.cdn.ampproject.or ... 5251%2524s


As expected some win and some (Bolts and LEAFs) lose, but simpler and fairer and incentivizes manufacturers to increase their cars' charging speeds (without damaging the battery, of course). I expect we'll eventually see tiered per kWh rates to encourage people not to block charging stations that far exceed their car's charging rate, akin to reg/mid-grade/premium.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cwerdna
Posts: 11140
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Electrify America Network

Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:38 pm

Thanks for that story at a weird URL (I guess on their CDN).

https://insideevs.com/news/444567/elect ... wer-rates/ is another more umm.... memorable URL?

BTW, for the Chevy Bolt example not going so high in terms of SoC and cutting off at the first taper, one can look at the video at https://electricrevs.com/2018/07/17/wat ... -to-55-kw/ where Jeff hits taper at around 54% w/26.1 kWh delivered in 30.x minutes (1:31 into the video). He started at 12%.

Let's assume 30.5 minutes, 30.5 minutes * $0.18 /minute = $5.49 for 26.1 kWh --> 21 cents/kWh

Now 26.1 kWh * $0.31/kWh - $8.09, which is about 47% more expensive.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
Posts: 12262
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:24 pm

^^^ Uh huh, and now with per kWh pricing no one will care what SoC they start at, or how their particular car charging profile tapers, or what the ambient or battery temp is and how that will affect their charge rate.

Instead, they will know exactly how much a given # of kWh will cost them without needing to consider any of that. Simple just like buying gas, and makes comparing prices easy. If you think station/network A is expensive, anyone can easily determine if station/network B is less expensive.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cwerdna
Posts: 11140
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Electrify America Network

Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:49 pm

GRA wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:24 pm
^^^ Uh huh, and now with per kWh pricing no one will care what SoC they start at, or how their particular car charging profile tapers, or what the ambient or battery temp is and how that will affect their charge rate.

Instead, they will know exactly how much a given # of kWh will cost them without needing to consider any of that. Simple just like buying gas, and makes comparing prices easy. If you think station/network A is expensive, anyone can easily determine if station/network B is less expensive.
The bolded part is the potential problem. People could tie up the station as their car slows to crawl. The red line in the graph of https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/best- ... 15&slide=0 is about right. Max charging rate eventually goes from (approx) 55 kW to 37 kW to 25 kW to 17 kW to 11 kW and 9 kW when really near full.

Instead of people being incentivized on a trip to only get enough + some buffer to get to the next stop and maximize charging rate/keep costs down, they might charge all the way to full, tying up the station.

In Jeff's movie at https://electricrevs.com/2018/07/17/wat ... -to-55-kw/, you'll notice from the 60 to 90 minute mark, he only got about 10 kWh. He or the car or charger terminated it before it slowed to 9 kW or less (I've taken my Bolt to that point before). If his session ran longer, the last 30 minutes would've had a couple kWh less dispensed.

Yet in the 1st 30 minutes, he got about 26 kWh.

Network B, C, etc. might not have per kWh rates. EVgo in CA is still charging by the minute. There are other chargers that charge by time or a combo of time and energy.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2080
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
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Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Electrify America Network

Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:07 pm

In the last insideev podcast, Kyle mentions that he recently (this week) charged his lender Leaf at 70KW on EA. Any chance with per minute billing, the chademos were unthrottled?
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

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