theothertom
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:26 am
Delivery Date: 19 Sep 2018

Re: Electrify America Network

Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:17 pm

theothertom wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote: My guess, the host pays nothing and gets nothing.
They probably don't get compensation from Charge America, but they may get extra business at their store. If I were a business owner, I would want one in my parking lot to draw more customers (OK, I would use it to charge my car, too :) )
Edit: I've noticed in my region that a lot of these are at WalMart's. One more reason to go to WalMart, and one less reason to go to Amazon :)

GRA
Posts: 12067
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:33 pm

Now that Tesla has jacked their SC rates, they and EA are in spitting distance of each other, and for most U.S. drivers (not just Prius drivers) QCs/SCs are more expensive than gas.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14886
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Electrify America Network

Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:17 pm

GRA wrote:Now that Tesla has jacked their SC rates, they and EA are in spitting distance of each other, and for most U.S. drivers (not just Prius drivers) QCs/SCs are more expensive than gas.
Teslaites complained so Mama T lowered the rates to 28 cents per k
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GRA
Posts: 12067
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:49 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
GRA wrote:Now that Tesla has jacked their SC rates, they and EA are in spitting distance of each other, and for most U.S. drivers (not just Prius drivers) QCs/SCs are more expensive than gas.
Teslaites complained so Mama T lowered the rates to 28 cents per k
Yup, a 10% decrease after a 33% increase. So, $0.28/kWh, divided by say 3 miles kWh (we're talking about SCs used for road trips, after all) works out to 9.33 cents/mile. If you have a Model 3 and can get 3.8 miles/kWh, that's still 7.4 cents/mile. At the U.S. national average of $2.25 & 3 m/kWh, if you get over 24.1 mpg, gas is cheaper. Here in California ($3.27) you need to get more than 35 mpg (44.2 for the Model 3 @ 3.8 m/kWh).
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14886
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Electrify America Network

Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:02 pm

GRA wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
GRA wrote:Now that Tesla has jacked their SC rates, they and EA are in spitting distance of each other, and for most U.S. drivers (not just Prius drivers) QCs/SCs are more expensive than gas.
Teslaites complained so Mama T lowered the rates to 28 cents per k
Yup, a 10% decrease after a 33% increase. So, $0.28/kWh, divided by say 3 miles kWh (we're talking about SCs used for road trips, after all) works out to 9.33 cents/mile. If you have a Model 3 and can get 3.8 miles/kWh, that's still 7.4 cents/mile. At the U.S. national average of $2.25 & 3 m/kWh, if you get over 24.1 mpg, gas is cheaper. Here in California ($3.27) you need to get more than 35 mpg (44.2 for the Model 3 @ 3.8 m/kWh).
Yeah but gas is a non negotiable 24/7 cost. Electricity is not.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 4927
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Electrify America Network

Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:27 am

GRA wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
GRA wrote:Now that Tesla has jacked their SC rates, they and EA are in spitting distance of each other, and for most U.S. drivers (not just Prius drivers) QCs/SCs are more expensive than gas.
Teslaites complained so Mama T lowered the rates to 28 cents per k
Yup, a 10% decrease after a 33% increase. So, $0.28/kWh, divided by say 3 miles kWh (we're talking about SCs used for road trips, after all) works out to 9.33 cents/mile. If you have a Model 3 and can get 3.8 miles/kWh, that's still 7.4 cents/mile. At the U.S. national average of $2.25 & 3 m/kWh, if you get over 24.1 mpg, gas is cheaper. Here in California ($3.27) you need to get more than 35 mpg (44.2 for the Model 3 @ 3.8 m/kWh).
When I road trip my Model 3 LR I average 100 kW during charging, pay 28 cents a minute and consume 220 Wh/mile. That is true for the fraction of the trip not covered by my home charge or destination charging.

So e.g. if I start from home and travel 400 miles I pay $1.1 for the first 300 miles and $3.69 at the Supercharger for the last 100 miles for a combined cost of 1.2 cents a mile. The final cost is weighted between Supercharger and L2 charging costs but would not be more than 3.7 cents a mile and in practice is much less.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 2088
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Electrify America Network

Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:12 am

SageBrush wrote: So e.g. if I start from home and travel 400 miles I pay $1.1 for the first 300 miles and $3.69 at the Supercharger for the last 100 miles for a combined cost of 1.2 cents a mile. The final cost is weighted between Supercharger and L2 charging costs but would not be more than 3.7 cents a mile and in practice is much less.
This weighting of costs is key. I travel with my Bolt on the EVGo network (and hopefully soon the EA network). Even when EVGo was much more expensive, it was still cheaper than using gas. The first 200 miles or so was covered by dirt-cheap electricity from home.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

GRA
Posts: 12067
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:37 pm

SageBrush wrote:
GRA wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Teslaites complained so Mama T lowered the rates to 28 cents per k
Yup, a 10% decrease after a 33% increase. So, $0.28/kWh, divided by say 3 miles kWh (we're talking about SCs used for road trips, after all) works out to 9.33 cents/mile. If you have a Model 3 and can get 3.8 miles/kWh, that's still 7.4 cents/mile. At the U.S. national average of $2.25 & 3 m/kWh, if you get over 24.1 mpg, gas is cheaper. Here in California ($3.27) you need to get more than 35 mpg (44.2 for the Model 3 @ 3.8 m/kWh).
When I road trip my Model 3 LR I average 100 kW during charging, pay 28 cents a minute and consume 220 Wh/mile. That is true for the fraction of the trip not covered by my home charge or destination charging.
I'm curious, at what speeds do you get 220Wh/m, i.e. is this freeway driving at 75 or 80? 220Wh/m would be at the lower end of what I've seen for freeway road trips the 3LR on TMC, although I don't follow that closely.
SageBrush wrote:So e.g. if I start from home and travel 400 miles I pay $1.1 for the first 300 miles and $3.69 at the Supercharger for the last 100 miles for a combined cost of 1.2 cents a mile. The final cost is weighted between Supercharger and L2 charging costs but would not be more than 3.7 cents a mile and in practice is much less.
Provided you've got low-cost home charging it can still be a good deal, especially if you're only doing one SC. Every one past that adds up. I see Colorado's avg. price for gas is $2.09 today, so $2.09/53 (Prius Hwy) = 3.94 cents/mile so you're doing good. What was it raised to there before they dropped it again? BTW, if you're paying per minute, Tesla's SC site now says 26 cents/min. for Tier 2, 13 cents/min. for Tier 1.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 12067
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:44 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
GRA wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Teslaites complained so Mama T lowered the rates to 28 cents per k
Yup, a 10% decrease after a 33% increase. So, $0.28/kWh, divided by say 3 miles kWh (we're talking about SCs used for road trips, after all) works out to 9.33 cents/mile. If you have a Model 3 and can get 3.8 miles/kWh, that's still 7.4 cents/mile. At the U.S. national average of $2.25 & 3 m/kWh, if you get over 24.1 mpg, gas is cheaper. Here in California ($3.27) you need to get more than 35 mpg (44.2 for the Model 3 @ 3.8 m/kWh).
Yeah but gas is a non negotiable 24/7 cost. Electricity is not.
Sure it's negotiable, I negotiate every time I choose where to get gas and what to pay. My closest station is $3.30/gal today, but the station I normally get gas at locally is $3.06, and the one I use if heading to Yosemite or the east side is $2.80. As I normally only use my car on trips, need I say which one I fill up at whenever I can? :lol: Utility-supplied electricity at home is non-negotiable, at least by a retail customer like me. similarly, if time allows and I have the choice between charging at an SC for $0.28/kWh or use an EvGo QC (nom. 50kW mostly) for $0.15/min. I'm going to opt for the latter if it's significantly cheaper. If time is a factor, then no.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
Posts: 4927
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Electrify America Network

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:53 pm

GRA wrote: I'm curious, at what speeds do you get 220Wh/m, i.e. is this freeway driving at 75 or 80? 220Wh/m would be at the lower end of what I've seen for freeway road trips the 3LR on TMC, although I don't follow that closely.
65 - 70 mph.
Bjorn Nyland recently posted a video comparing multiple EVs taking an 77 mile r/t at 75 mph. Results at 17:45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=150Z4l69CBo

--
The discussions re: fuel prices for trips is one thing, but people should keep in mind that a more realistic discussion is to talk about per mile costs weighted over the year since it is quite uncommon for people to use the car *only* for road tripping. Moreover, cost discussions using this dip in petrol prices is particularly silly. Use a 5 year average.

E.g., in my case 90% of my miles are not road trips so the 20% bump in supercharger prices adds about 3% to my annual fuel bill for the car. From peanuts to 1.03*peanuts
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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