leafme
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:27 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0200
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:52 pm

KeiJidosha wrote:
stanley wrote:Nissan should end this marketing ploy by Ford by immediately going to 6,6 in the US. The longer that Nissan delays doing this the more damage will be done to the image of the Leaf.
I'd heard Nissan already has a 6.6kW supplier. My guess is they figured out how much else needs to change to use 6.6 charger (wire gauge, connectors, firmware, software, Carwings, data loggers, aggregators, spec sheets, service training, manufacturing), so they have to wait for 2012. And 2011 LEAF won't be updateable.
Mark Perry told me in December that the 2011 LEAF will be upgradable to the "6.6" kw charger for a fee.

Malcolm :geek:

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10640
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:58 pm

If it is more than 3 figures, it will likely be a non-starter... However, I'm still not convinced that this is even technically possible, regardless.

leafme wrote: Mark Perry told me in December that the 2011 LEAF will be upgradable to the "6.6" kw charger for a fee.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

Smidge204
Posts: 940
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:42 pm

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:25 pm

mogur wrote:However, I'm still not convinced that this is even technically possible, regardless.
Would you like to expand on that point? The battery itself is more than capable of handling that charge rate, as are most of the system in the vehicle. The on-board charger is a standalone unit, so I see no reason why it could not be replaced?
=Smidge=

smkettner
Posts: 7373
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:33 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:I would bet confidently they had 6.6 a long time ago and just decided to use the smaller one for cost and home load issues.
Home load issues???? If that was true AV would be installing 16a evse not 30a evse.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

muus
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:48 am
Delivery Date: 16 Jun 2014
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:05 pm

However, I'm still not convinced that this is even technically possible, regardless.
Nothing's impossible but it's sorta like adding A/C to a car that doesn't have one, it's possible but I never heard of it being done. In the case of the charger, you probably would have to upgrade the wiring going from the J plug in the front to the charger in the back and maybe the wire going from the charger to the pack. You're doubling the current so unless they over-sized the wiring (unlikely) you'd have to change it all. The charger itself shouldn't be all that expensive but who knows how many man hours it would take.

I personally don't see it happening (but then what do I know :roll: ). I'm just hopping they will upgrade to the 6.6kW unit for the 2012 model and move the charger to the front. Not only would they save money with the new unit (it's cheaper) they would save money on the wiring (shorter).

Please Nissan if you are reading this, move the charger to the front (where it should have been in the first place) and get rid of the charger hump! It's a Win-Win-Win situation. (save $$$ - simpler install - more trunk space)
2014 Leaf SL (Gun Metal Grey)
Upgraded Panasonic EVSE (20A)
JuiceBox bought from Kickstarter
23 months 50,000 KMs
Leaf Spy Pro: 62Ahr (up from a low of 50Ahr)

User avatar
EVDRIVER
Moderator
Posts: 6656
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:15 pm

smkettner wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:I would bet confidently they had 6.6 a long time ago and just decided to use the smaller one for cost and home load issues.
Home load issues???? If that was true AV would be installing 16a evse not 30a evse.
To clarify there was grid loading concern.

User avatar
EVDRIVER
Moderator
Posts: 6656
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:16 pm

mogur wrote:If it is more than 3 figures, it will likely be a non-starter... However, I'm still not convinced that this is even technically possible, regardless.

leafme wrote: Mark Perry told me in December that the 2011 LEAF will be upgradable to the "6.6" kw charger for a fee.

Not only is it possible it is very easy, the difference is just doubling all the power electronics, the software is there already.

smkettner
Posts: 7373
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:42 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
smkettner wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:I would bet confidently they had 6.6 a long time ago and just decided to use the smaller one for cost and home load issues.
Home load issues???? If that was true AV would be installing 16a evse not 30a evse.
To clarify there was grid loading concern.
Exactly my point. Why not have 3.3Kw 16a evse at home when 8+ hours of charging is fine and include the 6.6 charger for improved opportunity charging.
This is the best of both IMO.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

leafme
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:27 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0200
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:09 pm

smkettner wrote:
evnow wrote:
Ingineer wrote:They might also assume that the pack is not fully depleted.
No. They are saying 12 hours for Focus EV compared to 20 hours for Leaf.

I think they are saying their L1 is capable of 16 Amps, instead of Leaf's 12 Amps.
I wonder if the Ford L1 will be selectable between 12 & 16, would have worked well on Leaf also.
This seems funny to me. A 120v, 15a branch circuit is capable of a continuous load not to exceed 12a. A 120v, 20a branch circuit is capable of a continuous load not to exceed 16a. Assuming a power factor of 0.985 and a charge efficiency of 0.846 pu (84.6%) for either system, the Ford would need to draw 19.2a at 120v to meet their 12 hr spec (violating the NEC) or at 16a it will take 14.4 hrs not the 12 they are claiming. One difference sure exists. The LEAF L1 EVSE can use a 120v, 15a or 20a branch circuit with either a 15a or 20a receptacle whereas the Ford can only use a 20a branch circuit with a 20a receptacle (the 20a ford EVSE plug will not fit a 15a receptacle). Not a big deal but a definite requirement. I'm inclined to believe Ford is blowing 2.4 hrs of smoke somewhere because they cannot get a safety listing for their EVSE at greater than 16a on a 120v branch circuit. To meet their spec the charge efficiency would have to be greater then 1.01 pu (101%). Can't do that in this world.

Image

Malcolm :geek:

AndyH
Posts: 6388
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:45 pm

muus wrote:Please Nissan if you are reading this, move the charger to the front (where it should have been in the first place) and get rid of the charger hump! It's a Win-Win-Win situation. (save $$$ - simpler install - more trunk space)
The charger is only 1/2 of the hump - the brake controller and it's back-up battery is on the other 1/2.

Return to “EVSE / Charging Equipment and Networks”