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Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:49 pm
by smkettner
I believe the Leaf connector only needs to be rated 20 amps as the charger only draws 16 amps. The whole idea of the J connector is to use variable mismatched ampacity on either side and it will not overload. Each side has it's own protection.

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:34 pm
by LEAFer
Smidge204 wrote:
LEAFer wrote:Ok ... that may be true of the SAE standard for the plug. But I highly doubt the receptacle on the LEAF is rated to 80A.
I'm operating under the assumption that the plug and receptacle are both defined as part of the standard, and therefore would match in terms of requirements. It would make no sense at all to design a standard which allows a 80A plug and charging system to be plugged into a receptacle that can only handle 30A before melting. :|
=Smidge=
Again, true (they would match each other). *BUT* even though the standard defines pilot signal protocol up to 80A, that does not mean every EVSE and/or part has to meet the maximum spec. That's the reason you find the Yazaki connectors on most L2 EVSE's marked 30A. They actually wanted them to be 32A, but a minor subset of testing at UL caused a failure at 32A, while passing at 30A (and the 80A target for ITT Canon plug was not achieved and it is downgraded to 75A for the same reason).

What prevents a safety issue is that even an EVSE meeting the maximum spec (but probably equipped with the "downgraded" 75A plug), when it puts out a pilot signal allowing 75A, the car still has the choice of how many amps it will actually draw. It may draw any amount up to 75A as long as it is safe to do so on its own rated equipment (the receptacle and internal wiring back to the charger in the car).

Naturally, an EVSE with all its parts rated and safely operating at 30A at best, should never send out an 80A pilot signal ...

Does that clarify ? Or is my explanation still "obtuse" :)

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:22 pm
by AndyH
EVDRIVER wrote:
AndyH wrote:
muus wrote:Please Nissan if you are reading this, move the charger to the front (where it should have been in the first place) and get rid of the charger hump! It's a Win-Win-Win situation. (save $$$ - simpler install - more trunk space)
The charger is only 1/2 of the hump - the brake controller and it's back-up battery is on the other 1/2.
Those brake back up units can be made vey small. See the one on the Prius.
Maybe so. And maybe they can be made 4x larger and stored on a Yakima rack on the roof. ;)
But it is what it is, and it is where it is, and it's not likely to change either size or location without some ringing of hands and gnashing of teeth.

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:44 pm
by evnow
AndyH wrote:But it is what it is, and it is where it is, and it's not likely to change either size or location without some ringing of hands and gnashing of teeth.
But will be a very good competitive advantage to have a trunk 3 times the size of Focus EV's.

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:31 pm
by AndyH
evnow wrote:
AndyH wrote:But it is what it is, and it is where it is, and it's not likely to change either size or location without some ringing of hands and gnashing of teeth.
But will be a very good competitive advantage to have a trunk 3 times the size of Focus EV's.
Small oil companies try to compare themselves with larger companies in an attempt to make themselves look more significant than they are; while the larger company intentionally doesn't want to acknowledge the 'brat' in any way as even denial elevates the baby to a higher level than they deserve.

Competition? From the Ford conversion upstart? Not today. :lol: :P

[Yessiree - look at that pretty 6K6 charger. Let's see what it does when we plug-in this here DC quick charger. Wheee those lights are BRIGHT in there! Ohhh...they went out, didn't they? That's too bad...]

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:02 pm
by evnow
AndyH wrote: Competition? From the Ford conversion upstart? Not today. :lol: :P
Yes, but, apparently few get it.

As they say, perception is reality.

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:55 am
by planet4ever
Smidge204 wrote:I'm operating under the assumption that the plug and receptacle are both defined as part of the standard, and therefore would match in terms of requirements. It would make no sense at all to design a standard which allows a 80A plug and charging system to be plugged into a receptacle that can only handle 30A before melting. :|
I think this was supposed to be a discussion of how difficult it would be to upgrade the 3.3kW charger to 6.6kW. A lot of words have been exchanged, but has anybody considered opening up the hump in the back and checking the actual gauges of the wires into and out of the charger?

Ray

/No, I'm not volunteering, since I don't have a charger yet./

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:48 am
by Smidge204
planet4ever wrote:I think this was supposed to be a discussion of how difficult it would be to upgrade the 3.3kW charger to 6.6kW. A lot of words have been exchanged, but has anybody considered opening up the hump in the back and checking the actual gauges of the wires into and out of the charger?
That's goddamn crazy talk! :lol:

Edit:
LEAFer wrote:Does that clarify ? Or is my explanation still "obtuse" :)
Crystal clear, but that still doesn't tell us anything about the actual capacity of the socket itself. The only things that come to mind that could affect the amperage rating is material and dimensions. Dimensions are fixed due to the standard - otherwise it would not be mechanically compatible. That leaves materials. It's entirely possible that the materials used only permit the socket to be rated 30A, but that does strike me as odd. There may be other reasons unrelated to the actual construction as to why the rating is so low.

But for worst-case let's assume the socket and wiring are not up to snuff - I still think that would not add much more to the required modification, and that the difficulty of the upgrade is overestimated.
=Smidge=

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:57 am
by ovev
From http://www.cleantechblog.com/2011/01/fo ... -leaf.html
Ford is making a big deal of the fact that the 2012 Ford Focus Electric charges twice as fast as the 2011 Nissan LEAF. Ford is 6.6 kW/h; Nissan is 3.3 kW/h. The comparison is unfair. The 2012 Nissan LEAF, available at the same time as the 2012 Focus Electric, will also charge at the faster 6.6 kW/h. Nissan, like most automakers, have been waiting for SAE to finalize certain charging standards. In 2012, both cars can be recharged after typical driving in less than 3 hours.

If you are a pioneer buyer of the 2011 LEAF, then you will either be content to charge at 3.3 kW/h, or you will pay to upgrade to 6.6 kW/h. Clean Fleet Report speculates that Nissan will charge $1,000 to $2,000 for the upgrade. Most chargers being installed are ready for 6.6 kW/h and are smart enough to charge at the vehicle’s rate, be it 3.3 or 6.6.
I dont know if these statements are based on actual knowledge or speculation though. :|

Re: The Competition: 6.6kW Charging

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:16 am
by mwalsh
ovev wrote:Most chargers being installed are ready for 6.6 kW/h and are smart enough to charge at the vehicle’s rate, be it 3.3 or 6.6.

I dont know if these statements are based on actual knowledge or speculation though. :|
Actually, a couple of us were speculating this very thing just a couple of weeks ago - that the charger already installed in our cars is fully capable of 6.6kWh charging and it's a feature that's simply crippled (for now).