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Re: How do we promote QC stations?

Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:28 pm
by planet4ever
How much of a problem is it going to be to get 3-phase 50 kW power to a small community high in the Sierras?

Ray

Re: How do we promote QC stations?

Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:42 pm
by edatoakrun
Well. I've tried to contact what I thought were likely locations, Lassen National Park (probably for L1/L2) and the local Freeway-accessible Casino complex (Rolling Hills, Corning, CA) for DC.

No response from either.

I think promotion of fast DC, including subsidizing installations, is an essential investment by any EV manufacturer with DC capability. As I wrote:

I do not understand Nissan USA's apparent reluctance to contribute to the development of the public fast charge infrastructure.

Billions of dollars have been invested by Nissan in designing and producing the LEAF. IMO the design and concept is far superior to any of the "plug-in" or ICE "conversions" that will enter the market in the next few years. But there is currently a glaring failure in the LEAF concept to any potential American buyer. Nissan is allowing it's EV competitors to beat it up over "range anxiety" and slower level 2 charge times.

The total cost of a DC fast charger installation is reported to be only $5,000-$25,000, before various subsidies and tax credits. Why Is Nissan not making any effort to promote DC infrastructure development? This is by far the most cost-effective way to increase the range and practically of the Leaf to current (any of you owners even used a DC charger yet?) and future drivers.

EV drivers do not need fast charging at home or at the dealer. They need to be able to get an occasional fast charge on the road BETWEEN destinations.

Until roadside charging becomes a reality, EV/ICE half-breeds like the Volt will be named "car of the year", and actual EV's will be considered fringe products.


http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2374

Re: How do we promote QC stations?

Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:26 pm
by DarkStar
planet4ever wrote:How much of a problem is it going to be to get 3-phase 50 kW power to a small community high in the Sierras?
If the area is anything like the suburb I live in, I could call up the utility provider and pay an extra $5 per month for three-phase power. Granted, I would have to modify my wiring a bit... ;)

Re: How do we promote QC stations?

Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:37 pm
by KeiJidosha
palmermd wrote:If I wanted to drive from my home to South Lake Tahoe, CA, it would be 147 miles one way. I would love to be able to drive my Leaf to Tahoe some day, but it would require at least one quick charge station along the route. Two would be needed realistically. It would probably sound silly to those who drive ICE cars that I would even consider such a trip and have to stop twice for 15 minute quick charge's, but I would not mind the short breaks.

Looking at the route, It looks like the best places to put the quick charge stations, not only looking at my situation, but also for those coming from the bay area or down from northern california, I would propose that we need one in Sacramento, and one in Pollock Pines.

For the one in Sacramento, what better place to put it to get promotion that on the Capitol Mall. There is a small parking lot right on the circular driveway on the capitol mall that would be a great place to have this station installed, and it would certainly capture the media attention from the capitol building.

Pollock Pines was chosen because it is 58 miles from Sacramento and 47 miles from South Lake Tahoe. Just about the perfect distance needed for the required quick 80% top off of the battery. If I were a business owner in Pollock Pines I would seriously think about investing in a quick charge station. It would certainly be a good way to bring people into my shop. There is a Starbucks and some other stores in a little shopping center right on the highway. The charge station would be a great way to get people to stop in for 15 minutes and buy a cup of coffee or something. Not to mention that they would be able to sell the use of the charge station.

Is there an organization that is working to get quick charge stations installed? What can we do to help promote the installation of such sites? Are there better locations to promote? Getting these installed would require that we show that there is some demand. We need to have everyone on this forum who might use these locations to support the selected locations. If we had enough people saying that they would use it, I think we could get somebody to invest in installing them.

Anyhow, thats my rambling thoughts for the morning.
Per ECOtality, this is how it works;

http://www.theevproject.com/downloads/d ... 20V3.1.pdf

Open the pdf file and go to "Figure 4-15 Installation Flowchart for Public Charging" and the flowchart gives you the process to locate a public charge station. As LEAFguy stated you can nominate sites at the ECOtality web site.

http://www.theevproject.com/charging-maps.php

I have done this, but they do not show up on the map, and there is no feedback as to sites under consideration. It also calls for input from "Consultations with EV enthusiasts”. That would be us. The contact list does not show a contact for the announced San Francisco area project;

http://www.ecotality.com/pressreleases/ ... BAAQMD.pdf

There are no assigned "public' contacts. But here are the available phone numbers;

http://www.theevproject.com/contact.php

I have seen lots of press releases, but no chargers. The “Electric Vehicle Charging Infrastructure Deployment Guidelines” except for Tennessee, do not suggest site locations.

http://www.theevproject.com/documents.php

I agree we need to get involved, or suffer the results.

Re: How do we promote QC stations?

Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:49 pm
by KeiJidosha
DarkStar wrote:
planet4ever wrote:How much of a problem is it going to be to get 3-phase 50 kW power to a small community high in the Sierras?
If the area is anything like the suburb I live in, I could call up the utility provider and pay an extra $5 per month for three-phase power. Granted, I would have to modify my wiring a bit... ;)
Commercial hook-ups, at least thru Edison, have a "Demand" charge. It measures your peak requirement and charges you a monthly fee for access to the availability of that amount of power. They need to be able to provide it if you want it, and have to plan capacity and infrastructure to deliver it. The one case I looked into charged ~$400/month for a 41kW demand peak. Even if you use no electricity. Surely a disincentive to property owners..

Re: How do we promote QC stations?

Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:00 pm
by palmermd
LEAFguy wrote:The EV Project, though limited geographically currently, has a "suggested stations" area. While your request may fall outside of their current area, it will let a government funded project know of the request for a charging station. ChargePoint America has the Sacramento area in their project. Perhaps you might have better odds there. You can request stations here.
KeiJidosha wrote: Per ECOtality, this is how it works;

I agree we need to get involved, or suffer the results.
The only thing is, I've suggested some locations on the site (including sacramento locations), and none of them have ever ended up on their map and they never respond to any email. But that is not the real issue. The real issue is that I'm talking about having quick charge stations installed and the EV project is only about level 1 and level 2 charge stations. Is there anywhere to help promote the quick charge stations?

Re: How do we promote QC stations?

Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:52 pm
by DaveEV
palmermd wrote:The real issue is that I'm talking about having quick charge stations installed and the EV project is only about level 1 and level 2 charge stations.
EV project is actually about L2 and DC quick charge stations. Nothing about L1. Right on their home page they say that they are working on 310 DC quick charge stations and 14k+ L2 stations.

Re: How do we promote QC stations?

Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:57 pm
by walterbays
drees wrote:EV project is actually about L2 and DC quick charge stations. Nothing about L1. Right on their home page they say that they are working on 310 DC quick charge stations and 14k+ L2 stations.
Yes, it may be premature to celebrate having made your last trip to the gas station. It may yet become the fueling station. http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2 ... nk-DC-Fast

Re: How do we promote QC stations?

Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:18 pm
by palmermd
drees wrote:
palmermd wrote:The real issue is that I'm talking about having quick charge stations installed and the EV project is only about level 1 and level 2 charge stations.
EV project is actually about L2 and DC quick charge stations. Nothing about L1. Right on their home page they say that they are working on 310 DC quick charge stations and 14k+ L2 stations.

Has anybody had any luck communicating with these folks?

Re: How do we promote QC stations?

Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:24 pm
by LakeLeaf
Michael -

You're a good man for thinking such great thoughts!

I've been trying to work on people in the Tahoe are over the past two years to start to think and promote Lake Tahoe as an "EV" or "clean vehicle" destination. So far - it seems to have fallen deaf ears.

I would suggest that you contact Nissan directly with this idea - that Nissan should think about and help bring about an "EV" destination that is within reach of one of their biggest initial roll-out areas. I suggest you send an email to Trisha Jung at Nissan with your idea. trisha.jung@Nissan-Usa.com

I'd also suggest that you also help work on the Tahoe side of things and make similar suggestions to some of our local concerns - suggesting not only the Route 50 and Route 80 EV corridors between the Bay Area and Tahoe, but also the encouragement of public recharging infrastructure around the lake at both public parking facilities and even at some of the ski resorts and other tourist gathering destinations. I've suggested that around the lake - L2 charging would be more then enough. After all - once we get you to Tahoe, we want you to stay for a while! The big governmental environmental regulation agency is the Tahoe Regional Planning Agency. Here is a recent column written by the head of the agency. She talks about the need for a transportation plan, but fails to take in EV's in her thinking. Her email is jmarchetta@trpa.org

If you PM me I can try to dig up some of what I have sent, and some additional people to suggest the idea to. Having someone else reinforce what I've been suggesting would be great.